Author:
Publication: Winter 2002
Date:
URL: http://www.npq.org/archive/2002_winter/huntington.html
Samuel P. Huntington is the famed
Harvard professor and author of The Clash of Civilizations and Remaking
the World Order (1996). He spoke with NPQ editor Nathan Gardels in October.
NPQ: To what extent do events since
Sept. 11 bear out your theory of a "clash of civilizations"? Are we at
war with an isolated terrorist fringe, or terrorists with a large, perhaps
vast, civilizational hinterland of sympathy?
SAMUEL HUNTINGTON: Osama bin Laden
has declared war on Western civilization, and in particular the United
States. If the Muslim community to which Bin Laden is appealing rallies
to him, then it will become a clash of civilizations. So far, they appear
deeply divided.
Bin Laden is an outlaw expelled
from his own country, Saudi Arabia, and later Sudan. The Taliban which
supports him was recognized by only three of 53 Muslim countries in the
world. All Muslim governments except Iraq-but including Sudan and Iran-
condemned his terrorist attack. Most Muslim governments have at least been
acquiescent in the US strategy to respond militarily in Afghanistan. The
Organization of the Islamic Conference condemned Bin Laden's terrorism-but
did not condemn the US response.
At the same time, Bin Laden appears
to have growing popularity "on the street," particularly in the Arab world
where he is able to capitalize on resentment against ruling regimes, Israel
and the wealth, power and culture of the US.
Appropriately, the US thinks of
its response not as a war on Islam, but as a war between an extensive,
transnational terrorist network and the civilized world.
Yet, undeniably, the terrorist actions
of Osama bin Laden have reinvigorated civilizational identity. Just as
he sought to rally Muslims by declaring war on the West, he gave back to
the West its sense of common identity in defending itself.
NPQ: Your book, The Clash of Civilizations,
was not about terrorism, but about the contesting world-views of civilizations
bound to clash in the wake of the Cold War.
Bin Laden's view of the world is
that it is now divided "between believers and unbelievers." Many, like
the Japanese writer Haruki Murukami, have chosen to interpret that as a
division between "the closed-circuit mind" of any type of fanatic and the
"open- circuit mind" cultivated by a pluralist society.
But isn't the conflict deeper-between
the secular pluralism of the nominally Judeo-Christian West and the political
monotheism exclusive to Islam?
Indeed, the late Nobel poet Octavio
Paz once argued: "Islam today is the most obstinate form of monotheism
in a world that otherwise accepts plural truths. We owe to monotheism many
marvelous things, from cathedrals to mosques. But we also owe to it hatred
and oppression. The roots of the worst sins of Western civilization-the
Crusades, colonialism, totalitarianism-can be traced to the monotheistic
mindset.
"For a pagan, it was rather absurd
that one people and one faith could monopolize the truth. Outside Islam,
the world again sees it that way. Islam stands alone. It is the most reactionary
force in the world today.''
Similarly, French philosopher Jean
Baudrillard once said to me: "The whole world is implicated in the fragmentation
and uprootedness of postmodern pluralism, including China and Russia. There
is one exception: Islam. It stands alone as the challenge to the indifference
(cultural relativism) sweeping the world."
HUNTINGTON: It is true that the
vigor of the intolerant mindset that can come from monotheism waned in
the West after being exhausted in religious wars of the late Middle Ages.
Pluralism has been empowered since by a division between religion and politics
unknown in the Islamic world. This merger of political and religious life
generates conflict in societies both where there is a Muslim majority and
non-Muslim minority or a Muslim minority in a country like India, where
most are Hindus.
Since Judaism, Christianity and
Islam are all monotheistic religions, the practical question is whether
they are monotheist and tolerant of other religions, or monotheist and
intolerant. All three of these religions have behaved differently in different
times. Tolerance was hardly a quality of Christianity during the Crusades.
At the moment, Islam is the least
tolerant civilization of the monotheistic religions.
NPQ: You have proposed the "abstention
rule"-that the West should abstain from intervening in the internal conflicts
of other civilizations-as a way to avoid a clash. Osama bin Laden's biggest
issue is the presence of US troops in the Muslim holy land of Saudi Arabia
to defend one Islamic country from another. Should the West not be there?
HUNTINGTON: I qualified my abstention
rule by saying that it might have to be broken if a vital national interest
was at stake. In the Gulf War, our vital national interest was at stake
because we could not allow Iraq to take sole control over the bulk of the
world's oil reserves. And our principles were at stake as well. We could
not tolerate one country just invading and annexing another at will in
violation of all international laws.
So, that was a legitimate action.
The continuing American presence in Saudi Arabia now is really minimal,
and we are there with the approval of the extraordinarily religious Saudi
government.
NPQ: Of the many reasons for resentment
against America among pious Muslims is the deluge of materialistic, sensate
mass culture that spews at them from Hollywood. MTV has gone where the
CIA could never penetrate. Madonna is the Muzak of globalization.
Shouldn't the West be more sensitive
to the message its culture sends out?
HUNTINGTON: They don't have to watch
that if they don't want to. Many governments, including those of China,
Singapore and France, have made serious efforts to stem the penetration
of American mass culture whether it comes across the Internet or on TV
by satellite. In Afghanistan, the Taliban banned television sets.
NPQ: The Italian journalist Oriana
Fallaci has caused a sensation with her passionate call on the West to
vigorously defend itself against political Islamists, saying it is us or
them.
Beyond the current campaign against
terrorism, what should Western civilization do to defend itself in the
broader strategic sense?
HUNTINGTON: I laid out several dimensions
of such a strategy in my book, The Clash of Civilizations, and they are
just as valid today.
The Western powers of the US and
Europe need to achieve greater political, economic and military integration
and coordinate their policies so states from other civilizations cannot
exploit our differences. Before Sept. 11, Europe and America were moving
apart on a whole series of issues from genetic foods to missile defense
to a European military. The events of Sept. 11 have for the moment changed
that dramatically. After the terror attacks, the headline of Le Monde read
"We are all Americans." Echoing Kennedy, Berliners declared "We are all
New Yorkers." As I said at the outset, in this sense Osama bin Laden has
given back to the West its common identity.
Beyond this, we need to continue
the expansion of the European Union and NATO to include the Western states
from Central Europe, that is, the Visegard countries, the Baltic republics,
Slovenia and Croatia. The US also needs to encourage the "Westernization"
of Latin America.
To avoid conflict, the West must
accept Russia as the core state of Orthodoxy and a major regional power
with legitimate interests in the security of its southern borders, with
whom we can cooperate in dealing with Islamist terrorists.
The West must maintain its technological
and military superiority over other civilizations and restrain the development
of conventional and unconventional military power of the Islamic countries
and China.
Above all, this consolidated West
must recognize that intervention in the internal affairs of other civilizations,
except where vital interests are at stake, is the single most dangerous
source of potential global conflict in a multicivilizational world.
NPQ: Will the anxiety and fear caused
by terror end globalization by disrupting the free flow of ideas, people
and capital? Or might we see a "two-speed" or "two-tier" globalization
as the core countries of the West hasten their integration as they fight
terrorism, leaving the rest of the world behind?
HUNTINGTON: Globalization has already
been proceeding at several speeds for different parts of the world. Indeed,
globalization has both stimulated and enabled the likes of Osama bin Laden
to plot his attacks on downtown Manhattan from a cave in impoverished Afghanistan.
For the immediate future, I believe
Europe and the US will come closer together, faster, driven by the rediscovery
of their common interests as a civilization of free societies. Perhaps
Latin America and Japan will join them.
Overall, and in the longer term,
the economic forces of the market will promote further globalization. This
in turn will continue to produce a legitimate reaction because of the income
inequality globalization generates within societies, but also between them-
including between the tighter Western tier and the rest.
Russia, China and India, while
necessarily outside this integrating core, will for the moment, for the
practical reasons of their own problems with Islamic unrest and terror,
work with the Western- led coalition.