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Professor Mohammad Hafiz Said, former chief of the Lashkar-e-Toiba (the army of the pure) and self-confessed mastermind behind the suicide attacks in Kashmir, a trend that started in 1999, breaks a long period of silence and gives insights into the current state of affairs and future of his banned organisation.
Said devised suicide bombings in Kashmir as a "socio-religious political tool" against the "Indian occupation". He claims to have orchestrated around 200 suicide attacks between 1999 and 2002 that killed hundreds of Indian Army personnel, expending only a few mujahideen (freedom fighters) lives. Prior to the founding of the Lashkar in 1986, he served at the University of Lahore as Professor of Islamic Studies.
General Pervez Musharraf outlawed the Lashkar on January 13, 2002 in the aftermath of the attack on Parliament on December 13, 2001. On December 24, 2001, Said stepped down from its leadership, renaming the Markaz al Dawatul Wal Irshad (whose armed wing was the Lashkar-e-Toiba) as the Jamaat ud Dawa and assuming its leadership. He limited the Lashkar's activities to Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) and handed it over to Maulana Abdul Wahid Kashmiri.
The Lashkar today operates freely in the PoK and is supported by the Jamaat ud Dawa, whose offices situated across the country serve as its centres also. Said was arrested in May 2002 but released by a court on October 31, 2002 on the basis of the argument that he had resigned from the leadership of the Lashkar before it was banned as a terrorist outfit. But he is still very much its de facto boss, controlling its purse strings and its rank and file.
After his release from jail, he has not been as guarded and careful in his pronouncements as the other leaders of the banned militia groups. The Jaish-e-Mohammad's firebrand leader, Maulana Masood Azhar, for instance, has kept his peace at a time when Pakistan cannot afford to provoke the outside world. Said was in Islamabad on April 2 to address the Defence of Muslim Fraternity Conference organised by the Jamaat ud Dawa. It was the first public gathering in three years organised by a militant organisation in Islamabad, where he spoke to Mohammad Shehzad. Excerpts.
Q.: Your sentiments are fiery, inflammatory
and provocative.
A.: My sentiments are within the
limits prescribed by the Holy Koran. Allah has asked the Prophet Mohammad
and Muslims to take up swords and other weapons, go to the battlefield
and cleanse the world of the infidels' tyranny and emancipate the suppressed
from their oppression. Allah has chosen Muslims for this job. So it is
the holy duty of Muslims to fight the non-believers' oppression wherever
it is taking place. Muslims all over the world are being victimised by
infidels. The West is looting them, working to usurp their wealth, property
and rights. This is a worrisome situation that could be addressed only
through jehad and the murder of the tyrants.
Q.: What would happen otherwise?
A.: The evil would spread. Muslims
would be wiped out. Their places of worship would be demolished, just like
the Babri mosque in India. Jehad is indispensable for the protection of
places of worship as well as the protection of the rights of Muslims and
non-Muslims. There is no greater cause than jehad.
Q.: You visited the United States
in 1994 and lectured in 20 cities. What was your impression of the U.S.
state and society at that time?
A.: At that time the U.S. was not
hostile towards Pakistan. Its attitude became anti-Islam after the collapse
of the USSR and the fall of Communism. (The events of) 9/11 added fuel
to the U.S.' animosity and bias against the Islamic world.
Q.: What is your vision of the U.S.?
A.: The U.S. is a monster that
would like to devour all the weak nations, particularly the Muslim countries,
in order to establish its hegemony. It has attacked Iraq. The next target
will be Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan. After that, it will deal with
China and then the other powers. To save the world from its evils, it is
necessary to twist the U.S.' neck. This is the only solution for global
peace - jehad!
Q.: Why would the U.S. target Pakistan?
A.: The U.S.' nefarious plan is
to take control of all the world's resources forcibly. Its next plan is
to create an Israel-esque state in South Asia and control the oil reserves
of Central Asia. Pakistan is the biggest hurdle in this scheme because
it is a nuclear power and a very close friend of China. It is a nation
of jehadists. These factors are creating hurdles to the U.S.' ulterior
motives. The White House is devising a strategy to attack Pakistan. Its
scientists are burning the midnight oil to improve the U.S.' weapons. `Iraq-II'
is on the cards! The sanctions in force against the Kahuta research laboratory
and the accusations about transfer of nuclear technology by Pakistan to
North Korea indicate that Pakistan is next in line. The rulers often ask:
"What is our fault? What have we done that would provoke the U.S. to attack
us?" I ask, what was Saddam's fault? What had he done that provoked the
U.S. to attack Iraq? (The United Nations Chief Weapons Inspector) Hans
Blix confirmed that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, although it
was Iraq's right to make such weapons for its defence. Despite that, Iraq
has been attacked. That shows that the U.S. has no respect for any law,
institution or principle. It has no regard for justice. It believes in
`might is right'.
Q.: So what should we do?
A.: We should say adieu to the
frustrating slogan, `Pakistan First', and demonstrate our courage. We have
to defend every inch of our homeland. We don't trust the rulers. They are
the lackeys of the foreign powers. They can't defend Pakistan. We will
have to take up that job. The U.S. is insisting on inspecting Pakistan's
nuclear installations and weapons. Pakistan should not agree to such demands.
If the rulers allowed the U.S. access to such installations, we will resist
it.
Q.: You often term India, the U.S.
and Israel an axis of evil.
A.: We have to fight the triple
axis of evil - India, the U.S. and Israel. The India-Israel defence pact
is anti-Pakistan and it has been masterminded by the U.S. The U.S. is masterminding
a programme according to which India will be used against Pakistan. This
is a very dangerous sign. It is time to understand this move and counter
it through a jehad against India.
Q.: In an interview with the weekly
Takbeer in 1997 you said that Kashmir will win its freedom within two years.
What went wrong?
A.: The Kashmir cause received
a serious setback due to 9/11. Freedom movements around the world, particularly
in the Islamic countries, have been declared "acts of terror". The U.S.
is trying to suppress all such struggles for freedom. Kashmir would have
won its freedom had Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif not withdrawn forces from
the Kargil front. We were very close to victory but the traitor Sharif
sold out the blood of the Mujahideen to the U.S. It will take time. But
I assure you that the Kashmir movement will be successful.
Q.: How far is it true to say that
your bitterness against India is due to the fact that 36 members of your
(extended) family lost their lives at the time of Partition?
A.: There is no doubt about the
fact that several members of my family were made martyrs by Hindus. But
my bitterness is over India's overall policies, tone and tenor against
the Muslim. Right from the time of Partition till today, whatever India
has done - be it the demolition of the Babri mosque and the massacre of
Muslims in its aftermath, or the holocaust in Gujarat against Muslims -
proves that the policy of Hindus is the genocide of Muslims so that India
could become a Hindu-only state.
Q.: So, what is the solution?
A.: The solution is not to kneel
down before them and beg for a dialogue. Dialogue is not a bad idea. But
India has never been sincere in resolving issues through talks. It has
been finding opportunities to stab Pakistan in the back. Look at its role
in the disintegration of Pakistan in 1971. It sent its troops to East Pakistan
and paved the way for the creation of Bangladesh. And what a shameful role
it is - playing in Kashmir by defying U.N. resolutions and masterminding
the mass murder of Kashmiri Muslims. So, we think that our policy of `Kashmir
through jehad' is absolutely right. In fact, India has shown us this path
of jehad. We would like to give India a tit-for-tat response and reciprocate
by killing Hindus, just as it is killing Muslims in Kashmir.
Q.: How do you respond to Dr. Israr
Ahmad when he says the fight in Kashmir is jehad for freedom (jehad fil
hurriya) and not jehad for Allah (jehad fisabeel lillah)?
A.: Jehad for freedom is always
jehad for Allah. The Koran is very clear on that. There is only one jehad,
and that is jehad for Allah. All other forms of jehad are also for Allah.
Jehad is only for Allah...
Q.: Do you see any circumstance
under which the U.S. could play a positive role in Kashmir?
A.: In the light of the U.S.' anti-Muslim
and anti-Islam policies, Uncle Sam cannot be trusted. The one who trusts
the U.S. these days would be the biggest fool. The U.S. is fanning the
sentiments of Muslims. It is provoking the infidel powers against Islam.
It has waged a crusade against Muslims. It is condoning Indian acts of
terror and extending Hindus its full support. It has declared the legitimate
freedom struggle in Kashmir a reign of terror. We will never accept any
U.S. role on the Kashmir issue.
Q.: The U.S. and India say there
is still "infiltration" across the Line of Control.
A.: It is totally wrong. There
is no infiltration across the LoC. Everything is being carried out by Kashmiris
inside Kashmir. The freedom struggle is indigenous. This baseless accusation
is an excuse to hunt Pakistan down.
Q.: You have been granted bail.
What is your legal situation, and do you expect that the Pakistan government
will ever bring charges against you? Do you face any restrictions on your
movements or activities in Pakistan?
A.: Yes, there were restrictions.
The government of Pakistan banned our outfit, the Lashkar- e-Toiba. The
Lashkar's role has been limited to Kashmir. The Lashkar is still active
in Kashmir. Our mission - the Janmaat ud Dawa's mission - is to preach
Islam in every street of the country. We are creating an awakening of jehad
among Muslims.
Q.: The motto of the Pakistan Army
is jehad for Allah. Do you think it is following that motto?
A.: I would like to say that the
survival of the entire Muslim world depends on jehad. There is only one
solution to the repression against Muslims: that is jehad. It is time for
the Army to act according to its motto. It is time for the government to
act according to the ideology of Pakistan, that is, Islam, and Islam preaches
jehad. I would urge the Pakistan Army to wage jehad for oppressed Muslims
around the world.
Q.: What role do you see for Pakistan
on Iraq?
A.: It is our duty to fight the
Iraq war. We have to use our military resources for Iraq at every cost.
The military resources of all the Muslim countries are a sacred trust for
the Muslim fraternity. These resources are not the personal property of
the rulers. I urge the government of Pakistan to spend all its resources
for Iraq's defence. I urge the government to send the Pakistan Army to
Iraq so that it could bury Bush, his allies and his poodle Tony Blair in
the deserts of Iraq. Pakistan should donate its nuclear bomb and all its
missiles to Iraq because these weapons have been made with our tax money.
Since they are of no use to Pakistan, they could be some use to Iraq. Saddam
Hussein can show the courage to use them. Pakistan should at least communicate
to Washington a categorical warning that if the U.S. launched a nuclear
attack on Iraq, it [Pakistan] will launch a nuclear attack on its master,
Israel.
Q.: You once asked Indian Muslims
to stand up for jehad. To what extent were your words heeded?
A.: I feel that it was given due
importance. I see that Indian Muslims are awakening to jehad in the aftermath
of Hindu brutalities against Muslims in Kashmir, Gujarat and other parts
of India. India is in fact inviting its Muslim population for jehad just
as the U.S. has invited Iraqi Muslims to wage jehad.
Q.: These days you are giving jehad
calls at public rallies. What has been the response?
A.: Yes, I'm doing that. I have
received a positive response. My followers are ready to sacrifice their
lives for jehad. The Jamaat ud Dawa has organised a jehad training programme...
(proceeds to provide the telephone numbers).
Q.: Some religious scholars say
that suicide attacks are un-Islamic.
A.: They are absolutely in accordance
with Islam. In fact, a suicide attack is the best form of jehad.
Q.: What are your plans?
A.: We have intensified preparations
for jehad. We are not afraid of the rulers. We only fear God. We will follow
divine orders. We will promote jehad. Allah says, Oh Muslims, increase
your power. Allah says, Oh Muslims make atom bombs. Allah is ordering us
to prepare all kinds of weapons and build lashkars (armies) so that our
enemies in the Pentagon and the White House dare not attack us!
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