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In an exclusive interview. The new prime minister I. K. Gujral
spoke to Editor in Chief AROON PURIE and Executive Editor PRABHU
CHAWLA on a wide range of issues. Excerpts:
Q. What were your first thoughts when you were chosen to be the
prime minister?
A. My first reaction was that if it comes I will not say no. I am
not a mass leader, but I have been in politics all my life. And
having worked with three prime ministers-Mrs Gandhi, V.P. Singh and
Deve Gowda-I know what it means to be in this office.
Q. Is not being a mass leader a handicap for you?
A. The response I got in the last few days has given me the
impression that I had an acceptability of which I was personally
not conscious of.
Q. So, what is this acceptability factor?
A. Well, it might sound extremely subjective and sometimes
egoistic. But when I try to analyse objectively I think it was my
long public life. Some people call it honesty, some call it
cleanliness, some call it probity.
Q. Doesn't the manner of your selection make you a captive of the
coalition partners?
A. I did not lobby for it and did not make a deal with anybody.
Therefore I am not a captive prime minister.
Q. But you retained the same team.
A. In a coalition government, the Cabinet has to have a composite
character. In time I will decide who is fit for what. That option
I reserve for myself.
Q. Does that mean in future you and not the parties will choose the
ministers?
A. No, I will choose my future colleagues keeping in mind regional
requirements.
Q. You will keep regional configurations in mind?
A. I wouldn't call it regional. I would keep the composition of the
coalition in mind. For the first time, a federal system is
working.
Q. You don't expect a change of ministers in the next few months?
A. I will not make any dramatic changes, but I'll make credible
changes.
Q. What kind of governance do you have in mind?
A. I would like to take this nation towards consensus on major
issues. As foreign minister, I spoke to each one of them
(opposition parties) on everything. I evolved a consensus on major
national issues.
Q. You mean you will extend the 'Gujral Doctrine' from external
affairs to domestic affairs?
A. You can call it a doctrine. yes (laughs). I call it consensus.
Q. What lessons have you learnt from what the Congress did to the
UF?
A. Indian polity has moved decisively from single-party rule to
multi-party coalitions and I don't think it can revert in the
foreseeable future. I cannot visualise whether this one will work
or not. But we are still in the process of learning about the
culture of coalitions.
Q. What is the guarantee that the past will not be repeated?
A. In politics, there is never a guarantee. But look at the
positive side. When faced with a crisis from outside, the 15
parties stuck together. One can be cynical but the fact is. the
coalition is working.
Q. But you replaced a leader under pressure...
A. Changing a leader, a minister, these are all part of politics.
No political system is stable.
Q. How do you work with a party that is outside the Government?
A. By giving them a sense of participation in government.
Q. They are not in government but still have a say in it.
A. The party which is supporting us should have the feeling that
the policies of the country are being made conforming to their
thinking also.
Q. How will the UF reconcile to the ,fact that in several states
its constituents are opponents of the Congress?
A. What has happened in Germany, for example. A coalition is in
place but the partners fight each other in local elections. This
also we are learning to do. Democracy ultimately means sorting out
such differences.
Q. But here you fought each other in the national elections too.
A. The country wants a coalition. A coalition is formed of parties
which are able to find the highest common factor: sometimes on
ideologies, sometimes on programmes and sometimes on personalities.
Q. And sometimes to keep somebody else out of power.
A. Sometimes to keep an ideology out of power. In Russia a
coalition is in place to keep the Communists out.
Q. Would you personally like the Congress to join your government?
A. It is not a question of me personally. It is a question of the
coalition deciding.
Q. The UF swore by one prime minister criticised the Congress
severely, then turned around, changed the leader and once again
sought Congress support.
A. When did this not happen? There was a time everyone swore by
Indiraji. Yet the moment she lost the 1977 elections, they stopped
even looking at her.
Q. During EP Singh's time too the Congress wanted the Janata Dal to
change the leader but you did not.
A. No two situations are similar. Only some elements are similar.
Q. How often will you meet Sitaram Kesri?
A. Whenever he thinks he wants to talk to me or whenever I feel I
need to talk to him.
Q. But you will still need to get the approval of tile UF Steering
Committee for any suggestions he may make.
A. That depends on the issues. Sometimes I may not have to.
Q. Will you accede to Congress requests, say, on the appointment of
governors?
A. I am not saying anything now.
Q. You have been a leftist all along. What are your views on the
economy now?
A. My pragmatism tells me what are the compulsions of this nation.
And those compulsions demand that I move in a certain direction.
Q. Do you believe in market economy, liberalisation, public
disinvestment?
A. Yes and no. For example, you cannot leave the entire population
of the country to the mercy of a market economy. India's success
lies in a mixed economy-30 per cent may be the middle class, but 70
per cent are still poor.
Q. So you still believe in planned economy.
A. Yes I do. Any nation which has limited means and more demand
has to resort to planned economy. We cannot leave everything to
market economy.
Q. Will you cut the size of government?
A. Yes. My priority is lesser government to make the system much
more efficient and cut government expense.
Q. Will you privatise, for example, nationalised banks and the
insurance sector to make them more efficient?
A. Let private banks come up. That does not mean I will wind up
the nationalised banks.
Q. The prime minister of this country has millions of things to
attend to. What art, your priorities?
A. Change. Change in outlook, change of style, and change of broad
dimensions of the concept of governance.
Q. What will be the change in outlook?
A. For one, more decentralisation. From the Centre to the states,
from the states to the village and panchayat levels.
Q. Arid the change in style?
A. A more open, democratic, transparent and accountable government.
Q. How long will your government last?
A. Can you tell me how long I will live?
Q. Deve Gowda always used to say he keeps his resignation letter in
his pocket. What about you?
A. If the nation does not approve, then I must go. Since I will
not seek a second term, I will not compromise on my basic
principles.
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