" I am not willing to give the Pakistan Army the benefit of the
Neerja Chowdhury
The Indian Express
June 13, 1999
Title: " I am not willing to give the Pakistan Army the benefit of the
doubt" (Interview with Brajesh Mishra)
Author: Neerja Chowdhury
Publication: The Indian Express
Date: June 13, 1999
The mood in South Block on the eve of the Pakistan Foreign Minister's
visit was restrained. Little expected from talks with Sartaj Aziz,
who was expected the next day, The government had debated the option
of cancelling his visit when the bodies of six Indian soldiers who
seemed to have been tortured were handed over to the Indian
authorities. But wanting to appear reasonable, the government decided
to go ahead with it. Brajesh Mishra, principal secretary to the Prime
Minister, weighed his words carefully while speaking to Political
Editor Neerja Chowdhury
Q: After the bodies of six Indian soldiers who appeared to have been
tortured were handed over to India, I gather there was a view in
government that the visit of Sartaj Aziz should he cancelled...
A: That was one view in the government, but the collective decision
was that he should come. On the one hand there was a feeling that the
international community should be shown this example of barbarism.
But then it was felt that later, what they would remember is that we
refused to allow him to come. Obviously they (Pakistan) would deny it
(the torture), and say that India had used this as an excuse to
frustrate a dialogue. The international community is very keen on a
dialogue.
Q: Who all were of this opinion?
A: It was the dominant view. The Prime Minister and all the five
members of the Cabinet Committee on Security were consulted.
Q: Is there a China angle to Kargil? Sartaj Aziz is going there
before coming to India, three days before Jaswant Singh's visit to
China. Is China sending us a signal?
A: My assessment is that Pakistan is unhappy with the view taken by
China, which has urged restraint and dialogue. China had said last
year in the UN Security Council that the LOC must be respected by both
sides. Sartaj Aziz is rushing to Beijing to try and get support for
the Pakistani point of view in advance of his visit to Delhi, and in
advance of Nawaz Sharif's visit to China at the end of the month.
China is not sending a signal to us. Pakistan is insisting on going
there.
Our understanding is that China wants to re-turn to the normalisation
process which was on before the underground tests by India.
Q: The Prime Minister has said that there was no failure of
intelligence in Kargil. If we had prior information, is a failure of
leadership implied?
A: We will have to go into the matter and learn some lessons after the
whole thing is over. Maybe there was complacency. The heights there
are steeper than in Siachen. But we don't have to get into this till
we have finished the job.
Q: What does the government pro-pose to do about the bodies of the
soldiers returned yesterday?
A: I have yet to get the post-mortem report. The International Red
Cross refused to be present. It was done in the presence of the
Indian Red Cross.
Q: But are you informed orally that they had been tortured?
A: There is no doubt of that.
Q: What is the significance of the timing, with the bodies being
handed over two days before the visit of Aziz?
A: We will take every precaution to see that nothing untoward
happens. At the moment the nation is united.
Either the army headquarters in Pakistan did not know about the
condition of the bodies, which means the local commanders had not
informed their bosses, or it means they (Pakistan) are sending a
deliberate message to us. They are trying to tell us that we will
deal with everyone in this manner, more or less trying to scare our
jawans.
I believe, given the rigid structure of the Pakistan army, they must
have known. I am not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Q: How do you assess the reasons for Pakistan striking at this
particular time? Is it because we have a caretaker government, or is
it because of their own domestic compulsions?
A: They wanted to change the status of the LoC in order to cut off the
Srinagar-Leh highway and the supplies to Siachen. They wanted to open
another route of infiltration by the so-called Mujahedeen and finally
internationalise the issue. These are their objectives.
I think the Pakistani armed forces came to the conclusion that the
Indian Army is in a weak position, having been starved of equipment in
the last 10 years. Their assessment of the Army was that it would not
strike back, which is totally wrong.
Again, we will have to go into this when the dust settles. In the
last 10 years, defence expenditure has been going down. One cannot
get away from that fact. One of the lessons we will have to learn -
and it is a costly lesson - is that you cannot starve the Army of
essential equipment.
Q: What do you expect from the Sartaj visit?
A: If he wants to defuse the situation, which he has said he wants to
do, the obvious thing is that the intruders will have to withdraw and
then again the Lahore process can be resumed. We are not opposed to a
dialogue, but we cannot have it while these people are sitting on
those heights.
One thing that the Pakistanis have apparently not realised is that if
they say that the LoC is disputed in some areas, then India can say it
is disputed in other areas, and the chances of escalation increase.
This is a double-edged weapon and they have to get this message. It
is a stupid argument.
Q: It is said that the government let down its guard after the Prime
Minister's Lahore visit...
A: No, we did not let our guard down. For 27 years, nothing had
happened there.
Q: How could George Fernandes make a statement about "safe passage"?
'
A: He told me that he had not volunteered that statement. He was
asked a question and he said this could be considered in the context
of the visit of Sartaj Aziz to India - that is if Aziz wanted a way
out.
Q: I.K. Gujral has written to the Prime Minister asking that Fernandes
be dropped from the Cabinet. Is the PM planning to do this?
A: You have to ask the PM that. He has not spoken to me about it.
Q: How long do you see the battle continuing?
A: By the end of September, we will be on top of the situation.
Q: Is there any chance of the elections being postponed?
A: As far as I am aware, the government is not considering this.
Q: What is the likely impact of Kargil on the elections?
A: If we do our job well, it should be good.
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