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Benazir Bhutto makes no secret of the fact that she wants to return to Pakistan. And wants desperately to fill the political vacuum there, particularly since General Pervez Musharraf seems to be on a weak wicket. Bhutto, who glittered in diamonds and pearls during an interview with COOMI KAPOOR today, admits that a passion for politics and a lavish jetset life style are both part of her personality. On a trip to India at the invitation of the CII, Bhutto is keen to project herself as a liberal espousing pragmatic economic policies, in contrast to the fundamentalist approach of some other Pakistani leaders. Excerpts from an interview:
Q.: On balance, has Pakistan gained
or lost due to the recent developments in Afghanistan?
A.: It depends on perception. My
own party feels the Taliban was giving Pakistan a bad name. We had called
upon the military regime to break relations with the Taliban in 1998.
Q.: Your own government when in
power was reputed to have first fostered the Taliban. Your interior minister
General Nasrullah Babbar described the Taliban as hamare bachche.
A.: Yes, he did say hamare bachche
hai and many people in Pakistan do consider the Afghanis to be like our
own children.
Q.: I think the remark was in the
context of the Taliban, not Afghans in general.
A.: That is a question you must
ask General Babbar since I cannot reply on his behalf. I can only tell
you that my government did not make the Taliban although this is a perception.
The Taliban rose on their own, but we did work with them. After the overthrow
of my government the Taliban movement was hijacked by hardliners, causing
immense damage.
Q.: Hasn’t General Musharraf’s position
been considerably weakened following the US intervention in Afghanistan?
How would you have handled the situation?
A.: The way I see it, there may
have been no need for American intervention if democracy had not been destablised
in 1996. As a consequence of the Taliban movement being hijacked, the al
Qaeda set up its training camps. Afghanistan became a central point for
militant groups from different parts of the world.
Q.: Hasn’t General Musharraf’s position
weakened even within the army?
A.: I don't get on with the General
and he doesn’t get on with me, but here in Delhi I am a little concerned
about trashing opponents back home. Certainly, Musharraf has taken certain
steps to strengthen his position within the armed forces. But there are
a lot of rumours circulating that he feels very insecure. There are rumours
that for his personal protection, efforts have been made to secure outside
commandos, non Pakistani commandos. While the rumours may be untrue, they
do illustrate that General Musharraf’s regime is much weaker and more unstable
today after the fall of Kabul than it was previously.
Q.: How powerful is the former ISI
chief Hamid Gul whose sympathies are reportedly still with the Taliban?
A.: HAMID Gul was one of
the key aides of General Zia ul Haq and was instrumental in setting up
some extremist factions. He and a section of the military have tremendous
sympathy for the Taliban and the Mujahideen. Which is why there is a debate
raging in Pakistan and the larger Muslim world on the role of Muslim countries
in the world community. There are leaders like myself who believe that
democracy and free markets can help Pakistanis achieve progress and prosperity.
But people like Hamid Gul believe democracy is wrong, and there ought to
be a spiritual leader who acts as the guide of a dictator in running the
affairs of the state, so that the government can be controlled for its
mission to spread pan-Islamic theocracy.
Q.: Won’t Hamid Gul create a problem
for Musharraf?
A.: He and General Musharraf used
to be close and I am unaware that they have fallen apart. Were he to withdraw
his support to General Musharraf, I can tell you General Musharraf would
find himself in deep waters.
Q.: You are considered more friendly
towards India, yet there was no major breakthrough in Indo-Pak relations
during your regime. In fact your successors Nawaz Sharif and General Musharraf
made more noises.
A.: That seems to be a perception.
But if your closely examine the gamut of Indo-Pak relations, the only periods
in which any substantive agreements were reached was when the Pakistan
People’s Party was in power.
Q.: How was your interaction with
Prime Minister Vajpayee and Home Minister L K Advani?
A.: My party has welcomed the many
proactive steps the BJP government has taken, such as the release of some
Kashmiri leaders and the initiation of a ceasefire. These might not have
achieved much but the very fact that these proposals were made showed that
New Delhi is willing to talk.
The home minister comes from my city of Karachi and my home province of Sindh, so I have a degree of affinity with him and tried to practise some of my Sindhi with him. I found the prime minister to be a person of few words. A simple but effective communicator who made me feel comfortable. Like Musharraf, I tend to prattle a lot, so I view it as a great value when people are able to convey what they have to say in a few chosen words.
Q.: This must be a very traumatic
time, exiled from your country and with your husband in jail.
A.: The last five years of my life
have bordered on hell. In the past when I went through periods of tension
there were others I could rely on. My mother was a great source of comfort
and both my brothers were alive.
Q.: Your mother is now estranged
from you.
A.: No. During the elections of
1993, we were briefly estranged for six months over her support to my brother.
But afterwards we were fine. My mother lives in Dubai with me. She suffers
from a form of Alzheimer’s disease because she was hit on the head by the
administration. That’s one of the reasons why she was estranged from us.
Because when you have the disease and the pressure starts to build up,
you turn against those who are closest to you.
Q.: How are your three children
coping?
A.: My son has become a teenager.
I am horrified at the thought that soon he won’t be able to sit on my lap.
They miss their father tremendously. To a wife a husband is important,
but I think it pales into insignificance when one thinks of the impact
the father has on the lives of the children. I worry for my children because
there is no male around. The Bhutto men all died young.
Q.: India sees Pakistan as a rather
feudal democracy compared to India, where there is more grassroot participation.
A.: Yes, it’s very surprising for
me because since the sixties, power has gone from the rural community to
the business community. Now, it is in the process of being transferred
to the information community. In every country there are families with
a tradition of going into politics. Look at George Bush or Al Gore.
Q.: You have these two very different
images, a passionate politician and a jetsetter.
A.: Both images are to a certain
degree true. I grew up in a family of privilege. My mother was a glamourous
lady and so we kept up with fashion and bought what were brand names. But
we were also brought up with a social conscience.
I don’t make a pretence because I think it’s hypocritical to dress up in a drabl manner in public and sparkle at home.
Q.: It is said that this visit to
India on the CII’s invitation is part of a planned campaign to boost your
image in the hope that you will soon fill the political vacuum in your
country.
A.: That's a positive thought and
a positive perception. Actually, I came to meet the people of India and
explain to them some of my vision for economic progress by working together.
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