HVK Archives: I've no magic wand to stop graft: PM
I've no magic wand to stop graft: PM - The Hindustan Times (New Delhi)
HT Corespondent
()
21 July 1997
Title: I've no magic wand to stop graft: PM
Author: HT Corespondent
Publication: The Hindustan Times (New Delhi)
Date: July 21, 1997
"I do not have a magic wand to end corruption," Prime Minister Inder Kumar
Gujral said in interview to Home TV.
"Corruption, I say with great regret and pain, has seeped into the veins of
our nation," he said, adding that it would disappear "only when the people
learn to resist the demand thing."
Replying to the charge that he was tolerating corruption, Mr Gujral
accepted that "something drastic" had to be done about those in ministerial
positions who were corrupt.
The interview will be telecast "In Focus with Karan" on Monday.
Mr Gujral spoke in detail about Indo-Pak relations, oil prices criticism of
his own style of functioning. Bihar Chief Minister Laloo Prasad Yadav and
the possibility of reshuffling the portfolios of his ministers.
Calling Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif a friend, Mr Gujral said
that "both the nations' future lies in togetherness".
In response to the criticism that he was "not assertive enough", Mr Gujral
drew a distinction between being in authority and being authoritarian. "I
am seat of authority. I do not want to be an authoritarian," he added.
Referring to the oil price issue, Mr Gujral said that he could raise the
price tomorrow but if he failed to convince people of its necessity, there
would be an agitation in the streets.
The Prime Minister said, 'the main point is that when oil prices are
increased - which we have to inevitably to - the people much understand the
logic of it.'
Mr Gujral indicated that he would consider reshuffling the portfolios, but
would not do so in a way that creates sensation.
About the criticism of his own style of functioning, the Prime Minister
said that his "gentlemanly" approach was conditioned both by his
temperament and the requirements of the polity he was seeking to strengthen.
Mr Gujral refused to accept that he was not assertive enough, but accepted
that at times it was better "to backtrack" than to be "ziddi" (obstinate).
The Prime Minister said his style of leadership was collegiate.
Talking about corruption in detail, Mr Gujral said, "I am not tolerating
corruption but I have not discovered that magic wand where I can say no
corruption and there will be no corruption tomorrow. Corruption, I say with
great regret and pain, has seeped into the veins of this nation.
It is not only those who are in ministerial positions who are corrupt. Of
course, they are and something drastic has to be done about them. But the
main point is that people in the street suffer. You cannot get anything
done," said Mr Gujral.
"On Fridays," he said "I meet a large number of people and I feel hurt when
somebody tells me 'I want an electricity connection but they want money'
and 'I want something for my house and they want money'. Ultimately the
nation believes that nothing can be done without corruption.".
The Prime Minister said whilst there was a need for "firm government
action" and "no let up on culprits", he added that it was important to
understand the nature of the police organisation which has to contain
corruption.
"Let us understand that the police organisation are not what you call Dood
ke dhuley hue (pure as milk). Those through whom you are trying to contain
this also have their difficulties," he pointed out.
The Prime Minister maintained that corruption would only disappear when
people learn "to resist the damned thing". In his opinion, "most
importantly corruption will ultimately leave us when there is a popular
resistance to it. You see, how many of us, particularly the middle classes,
can easily swear that we have never given money for anything. Let us try to
resist the damned thing. Suffer for a while but not do it. But it is not an
easy task."
Asked what he hoped would be the future outcome of the Indo-Pak talks, Mr
Gujral said: "The compulsions of history and out commitment to the future
and our genius will find a way out where both of us can live in peace and
accept some realities. It may not be possible for me to spell it out in
more detail now.
But I can tell you one thing that for the entire population of Pakistan and
India their future lies in togetherness.
Mr Gujral said that he had asked Mr Nawaz Sharif to try a policy of
friendship for 10 years and Mr Sharif had agreed. "I told the Prime
Minister of Pakistan that "we have experienced 50 years of fighting, let us
now try 10 years of friendship. He was very positive. He said yes you are
right."
Explaining how he thought the talks could lead to a positive outcome, the
Prime Minister said the they would allow the atmosphere to cool and permit
reason to prevail. He said "talking by itself is an objective" and "we are
discovering each other".
However, the Prime Minister agreed with the assessment of a senior
Pakistani diplomat that asking intrusive questions which probe deeply could
expose the elaborate, intricate and carefully balanced structure of these
talks in a way that they might collapse. The Prime Minister also accepted
the Pakistani diplomat's assessment that the talks depended upon the
creation of "fuzzy logic" which would permit both sides to talk about what
they want whilst avoiding areas they did not wish to discuss.
The Prime Minister said that the present process of talks with Pakistan
were determined by his personal contacts with Mr Nawaz Sharif before either
of them had come to office," Mr Gujral said that he and Mr Sharif agreed
they were trying to cover ground which no one had previously thought
possible to cover.
Asked whether he would accept that as far as India and Pakistan talks were
concerned, Mr Nawaz Sharif's difficulties were more "intractable" than his
own, Mr Gujral unhesitatingly agreed.
Emotionally defending his policy of easing visas for Pakistanis visiting
India, Mr Gujral said that it hurts him when divided families suffered
because they could not visit each other. "When we relaxed visas we were not
doing a favour to anybody. It is reality of history that between India and
Pakistan there are divided families, a mother here or a brother there. They
sometimes want to meet and I inflict pain on them. How does it help me?
Which politics does it help? The other thing is that the more people to
people contacts there are the more understanding there will be," he said.
In the interview, which is the second part of a two-part one hour interview
given by the Prime Minister, Mr Gujral also responded at length to
criticisms of his style of functioning whilst emotionally claiming that
there was no question of his tolerating corruption.
Speaking about the Bhabani Sengupta and Sharad Yadav incidents, the Prime
Minister said the he would rather "backtrack" than be obstinate. "My
democratic temperament makes me all the time see the other man's point of
view. And to me democratic functioning when you are holding responsible
positions is not to be obstinate. I don't want to prove a point. I want to
see that I can carry the people with me. If one or two things irk somebody,
whether rightly or wrongly, and if I do not find it possible to persuade
him, then it is better to backtrack."
Mr Gujral accepted that his style of leadership was collegiate but added
that leading a Government of 15 parties is "a very difficult process".
In response to the question that many had concluded he was a weak Prime
Minister when he was forced to retain virtually all the members of the Deve
Gowda Government, Mr Gujral said that this was a misunderstanding of his
position as head of a coalition Government.
"It was not Deve Gowda's Government. It was a coalition government where
all the coalition partners had nominated their representatives and I was
running the same coalition arrangement where the coalition partners did not
want to change their nominees. After that my role comes in. I was heading
the same coalition and if you want to keep the same nominees of the
coalition partners," he said.
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