'50 years of independence is a matter of pride for every - The Sunday Observer

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Bharatiya Janata Party president Lal Kishinchand Advani completed a major
mass-contact programme recently when he travelled the length and breadth of
the country (except for the North-East) in his Swarna Jayanti Rath. The BJP
president addressed a dozen meetings daily for 58 days as he travelled
15,000 km.

The yatra - Advani's third and the BJP's fourth in seven years - was
ostensibly meant to remind people of the sufferings of and sacrifices made
by the thousands of heroes of the freedom struggle. But its real objective
was to assess the BJP's support, keeping in mind the not-too-distant
mid-term election.

In an exclusive interview with SHIVANI SINGH, Advani, who is serving out
the last few months of his term as BJP president, spelt out what the
exercise had achieved, and what the party hopes to gain. Excerpts..

What was the yatra's purpose?

The purpose was to remind the people that freedom from the British did not
come cheap. There were people who laid down their lives for freedom. The
yatra was not only to pay homage to these freedom-fighters, but also to
provoke a debate on where we have arrived in these five decades.

The. yatra has eminently succeeded. And it has made me and my party
confident that, in this dismal political scenario, people perceive the BJP
as a ray of hope.
In terms of popular response, how was it different from your Ram Rath yatra?

Before starting out, I was sceptical whether this yatra would evoke the
kind of response my earlier one did. But, to my surprise, it was better.

During my previous yatra, the issue was live. People came to greet the
rath not because it was taken out by the BJP, but because it was for a
sacred cause. Perhaps they did not even know the BJP then.

But this time they came only to greet the BJP. People did not come to
listen to my speeches or take my advice on inculcating values and
discipline in their lives. Thousands who flocked to greet the rath came
because it was a BJP rath yatra. The party's image was enhanced.

Though you have said that the BJP can come to power without the aid of
regional parties other than your allies, the yatra was clearly an inroad
into the southern and eastern states. Are you still trying to mobilize
support from the regional parties?

We have formidable allies in the Akali Dal, Shiv Sena, Bahujan Samaj Party,
Samata Party, and Haryana Vikas Party. We are not searching for new allies.
I have told all my state units not to think in terms of fresh allies. With
these allies, I am confident that we can come to power with a clear majority.

But at the same time, we are not political untouchables. If a party comes
to the conclusion that it is this party which can be entrusted with the
leadership of the country and wants to align with us, we will consider it.

Quite a few in the United Front are not comfortable with the ideology of
the Marxists, the Congress, or the Janata Dal. They aren't there because
of anti-BJP-ism.

If you were not looking for new allies, why did you take up a new issue in
each state, most of them of a regional nature? In West Bengal, it was
anti-CPI-M, in Bihar it was Laloo Prasad Yadav and Jharkhand. As a party
with a national base, need you have done that?

The only issue I focussed on was corruption. And Laloo Yadav came in that
context. I referred to it in every state. If, in the last 50 years, the
country has not been able to make progress commensurate with its potential,
it is because of corruption. Therefore, a firm attitude is needed towards
corruption, which the present government and the Congress are incapable of.
They are themselves neck-deep in corruption.

We are a party with a national base, true. But that does not mean we can't
address regional issues.

Cutting into the Congress agenda, votes, and legacy was evident throughout
the yatra. What was the need?

This is an interpretation which may be justified. The Congress committed a
major lapse when it forgot the Swarna Jayanti year. The government is
observing it from next year, when it ought to have been from last year to
this year. And 50 years of independence is a matter of pride for every
Indian. The Congress is not its sole proprietor. The Congress we have
today does not have the remotest relation to the pre-1947 era. Its values,
commitment, and temper are all very different from what they were in
pre-Independence times.

It is true that one of the programmes we undertook, to honour
freedom-fighters, should have been done by the Congress. That generation,
mainly 70-plus, had for a long time associated itself with the Congress,
for they knew none else. They are the ones who are most disillusioned with
the present state of the party.

In the last decade, the BJP's growth has been principally at the cost of
the Congress. The school of thought that was represented by Congress
leaders like Aurobindo Ghosh, Lokmanya Tilak, Lala Lajpat Rai and Madan
Mohan Malviya was cultural nationalism. It is this school of thought which
is basic to the BJP's ideology. We call it Hindutva. It was this spirit
which led these leaders to defend Vande Mataram despite strong opposition
from the Muslim League. By swaraj, they meant Ram rajya. They led the
Indian Constitution to incorporate within its Directive Principles the
provision of cow protection. This would be anathema to modern secularism
which I describe as pseudo-secularism. This nationalism stems from the
concept that India is one nation because of its culture. It was our
culture which did not accept theocracy when Pakistan and so many other
states did. India is secular because of this cultural nationalism. And
even the Muslims have realized this.

The BJP has moderated its position on the Muslims. Is this just to garner
Muslim support or a genuine move to liberalize Hindutva?

I do not know what you call a moderate stand. I was never anti-Muslim.
Not a single sentence in my speeches even during my Ram Rath yatra was
anti-Muslim. You may not agree with me, but that does not mean you label
me anti-Muslim.

This time too, during my rath yatra, I appealed to my Muslim friends not to
view the -BJP through the jaundiced eyes of our adversaries. You judge us
by our track record. You will find that the BJP is the only party committed
to secularism. It is the only party which can give security and safety to
the people.

The other parties have used Muslims as a vote bank. They are not concerned
about Muslim welfare. The BJP has become a significant force only in the
last one decade. What happened in the four decades before? Did the Muslims
progress? When I think of engineers, doctors, industrialists, I see all
communities except. Muslim. Why? The BJP cannot be responsible for their
backwardness. It is the fault of parties like the Janata Dal, Congress.
and Marxists whose approach towards the Muslims has been, "You must vote
for us to keep the BJP out. If the BJP comes to power, you will be
destroyed."

The BJP does not propose to exploit Muslims on any issue. And we do not
propose to dilute the issues which other parties think are anti-Muslim.

But there are issues like the Uniform Civil Code which the BJP feels so
strongly about. Isn't it anti-Muslim?

No. Muslims all over the world live under a uniform civil code, except in
Islamic countries. So why can't they do so in India?

When I think of a uniform civil code, I do not think of the Hindu law. I do
not want Hindu laws to be applied on Muslims. We have said clearly in our
manifesto that we want the Law Commission to cull out the progressive
ingredients of laws of all religions and formulate a uniform civil code.

The UF is based on the anti-BJP plank, but now, with continuous squabbles
amongst its constituents, how far have these parties moved away from their
anti-BJP disposition? What efforts are you making to dilute this anti-BJP-ism?

Only the principal parties in the Front subscribe to anti-BJP-ism. The
smaller ones don't.

But today, it is not anti-BJPism that sustains them. For most, it is a
question of survival. They know that if the government falls and elections
are held, they will be wiped out.

But anti-BJP-ism still matters to the Marxists. They continue to suffer
from some kind of demonic syndrome. It is this syndrome that has sustained
them. At one time, the demon used to be capitalism and imperialism. Now,
with the collapse of Communism the world over, the Marxists in the country
have lost that demon. So the BJP is the new demon, something around which
they can develop their fear psychosis.

But they have not succeeded. One major reason for our phenomenal growth in
the last decade has been anti-BJP-ism. The more they beat their drums, the
more we gain.

You have been predicting a mid-term poll. How soon will it be?

People know this government will not last. Even members of the government
ask me this question. I will give. you an instance. The former prime
minister [H D Deve Gowda] met me just before he was going to be elected to
the Rajya Sabha [after being made prime minister]. I asked him why he was
not contesting for the Lok Sabha. His candid reply was: "Who knows how
long this Lok Sabha will last? At least my seat will be safe in the Rajya
Sabha." This is the state of affairs.

How do you view Mayawati's four-month rule?

There have been problems, but no major one. When I passed through Lucknow,
I had an hour-long discussion with her. We decided to review the situation
after a year, when the BJP completes its term.

What political results has this experiment yielded?

Our alliance with the BSP was propelled by immediate political gains. But
it was our commitment to social justice that further motivated us. The
rampant casteism promoted by certain political groups had created a sharp
divide between the upper castes and the Dalits. Our alliance has helped
bridge this gap. Rhetoric and provocative speeches and statements are no
more made.

But there is ruthless misuse of the Harijan Act to settle scores with
non-Dalits. How do you justify that?

I spoke to Mayawati in this regard. She said: "Give me specific cases of
misuse of the Act, and I'll take action. The police officers, the
administrative officers, whoever misused the act will be punished."

People are talking in general terms. The Opposition is trying to create a
gulf between us.

Recently, Atal Behari Vajpayee pointed out that the money Mayawati has
spent on "Ambedkarization" of the state could have gone into welfare
activities. Do you agree?

If Mr Vajpayee has said this, it must be true. I have not gone into the
details. When the time comes, we will analyse it.

The BJP ministers in Uttar Pradesh have been pushed to the back seat. They
are upset by Mayawati's provocative measures. Still you have not thought
it fit to convene the high-level co-ordination committee.

According to the statement we had made, myself, Kanshi Ram, and Mr Vajpayee
were to form a co-ordination committee. But whenever I read about any
problem in the newspapers, I found from either Kalraj Mishra or Lalji
Tandon that most of the problems were minor ones and could be solved
without our interference.

There seems to be a clear divide within your party over Mayawati's term as
chief minister. The Brahmin faction has been arguing in favour of an
extension for her while others like Sunder Singh Bhandari have been issuing
threats of withdrawing support. How do you see the resurfacing of this
Brahmin-backward class divide?

This is rubbish. A few days back, Tandon and Mishra were described in a
press report as aspirants for chief ministership. There is not an iota of
truth in it. The BJP has only one candidate for chief ministership of Uttar
Pradesh and that is Kalyan Singh. Nobody is going against the party decision.

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