HVK Archives: 'Kashmir is a core issue'-Interview-Ashraf Jehangir Qazi
'Kashmir is a core issue'-Interview-Ashraf Jehangir Qazi - Sunday
Aditi Phadnis (New Delhi)
()
17-23 August 1997
Title: 'Kashmir is a core issue' - Interview - Ashraf Jehangir Qazi
Author: Aditi Phadnis (New Delhi)
Publication: Sunday
Date: August 17-23, 1997
There could not have been a greater contrast. Former Pakistani high
commissioner to India, Riaz Khokhar, was flamboyant and abrasive in an era
when India-bashing was the political fashion m Pakistan. His successor,
Ashraf Jehangir Qazi, is firm a but soft-spoken representative of Pakistan
in afar more relaxed environment in Indo-Pak relations.
Qazi has been Pakistan's ambassador in Syria, GDR, the erstwhile Soviet
Union and China. He has seen disappearing countries and vanishing borders.
In this interview to SUNDAY, he talks about Pakistan's role in Afghanistan
and discusses the new mood in India and Pakistan over Kashmir.
Sunday: Pakistan is deeply involved in the politics of Afghanistan. There
is an impression that the Taliban are being promoted and sponsored by
Pakistan, leading to an escalation of militarism in the subcontinent. What
is Pakistan's policy towards Afghanistan?
Ashraf Jehangir Qazi: lie military intervention by the Soviet Union in
Afghanistan was brought to an end following the freedom struggle of the
Afghan people. The effect of the struggle has lingered on because
institutions on the ground were destroyed.
This has created a new problem of refugees who had come primarily into
Pakistan and Iran and find it difficult to return. Trade and
reconstruction, which can bring prosperity to the Afghan people, cannot be
developed until the internecine fighting which has erupted there, ends.
Pakistan's policy has been not to develop relations with any one group or
party. We know that Afghanistan is a multi-ethnic country and no one group
can rule Afghanistan in a stable fashion. It has always been Pakistan's
endeavour to encourage consultation among all the ethnic groups that form
Afghan society.
The Taliban are a part of this ethnic group. They are a truly indigenous
development, an outcome of the situation that emerged in the aftermath of
the freedom struggle.
Many of the groups of Mujahideen which had participated in the movements
against the Kabul regime - Najibullah and (Babrak) Karmal - degenerated to
little more than groups of bandits. The life of the Afghan people became
insecure.
The Taliban's only c on with Pakistan was that we had more than three
million Afghan refugees in Pakistan. The children had been going to school
in the refugee camps. They were Afghans but as they grew up they acquired
knowledge of Urdu and Pashtu. Because they spoke Urdu instead of Farsi,
there was this perception that they were Pakistanis. They are Afghans who
have spent their childhood in Pakistan.
International observers have seen them in action. Because of the
instability in Afghanistan, people would come up to them. They (the
Taliban) would ask them to surrender arms. They had a particular social
programme which strikes us as being excessively conservative. But you have
to understand traditional Afghan society and also the traumatic conditions
under which they were required to respond.
People saw the Taliban as the answer to an insecure and dangerous situation.
We do not agree with all the policies of the Taliban. We also do not think
they have not made mistakes - certainly they've made mistakes.
But we do believe that the Taliban are a reality. They have emerged from
the reality of Afghanistan society. For anyone to seek to bring about
peace in Afghanistan, you've got to deal with that reality.
We don't want to impose any sort of government on Afghanistan overriding
the wishes of the Afghan people. That simply isn't possible. ]be Soviet
Union wasn't able to do that the British were not able to do that -
Alexander the Great couldn't do it!
Q: There have been some fundamental changes in the internal politics of
Pakistan after the recent general elections. Mr Nawaz Sharif has got a huge
mandate. Will this affect Pakistan's perceptions of India?
A: Nawaz Sharifs election is a historical event in Pakistan. He's got the
biggest mandate any Prime Minister has ever received. His mandate is to
bring about socio-economic change, to rid the country of corruption, and
significantly, to explore all avenues to improve relations with India.
During his campaign, he did not use India as a whipping horse. On the
contrary, he emphasised that Pakistan must seek to normalise relations with
India within the framework of a principled settlement of the Kashmir issue.
Q: India and Pakistan have been free for 50 years, but relations are not
normal. There is a view that may be if you put Kashmir to one side,
Indo-Pak relations will see a breakthrough.
A: People here have suggested that if Kashmir is set to one side and we can
address other issues in an effort to improve the climate of bilateral
relations.
However, as I have pointed out in numerous meetings with our Indian
friends, that is at best only half of the truth. The other half which is
very important, is that Kashmir is the one issue, the one dispute, the one
difference, that has kept India and Pakistan apart.
It's not trade, it's not culture, it's not visas, it's not Siachen, it's
not Sir Creek, it's not the Wuller Barrage that has prevented us from being
normal neighbours. It is this one issue. This issue is rooted in the
past, rooted in the creation of Pakistan.
Unless we can begin to meaningfully discuss it towards an eventual
settlement which is acceptable to the people of Kashmir and acceptable to
us too, we will not be able to engender that kind of atmosphere within
which sustained and significant progress on other fronts would become
feasible. That is as much a fact, possibly more of a fact than 'let us
talk about other things, keeping Kashmir aside'.
That is not feasible for one other reason. Kashmir is a live issue in
which people are involved. Which gives rise to stories ... you know?
Which affect public opinion in both India and Pakistan and they affect
things negatively. Images are generated, of one kind here, of another kind
in Pakistan. So if we don't address Kashmir,
Kashmir will continue to feed negatively into the overall ambience between
the two countries which will restrict possibilities for progress in other
fields.
We need to do other things. We're not saying 'Kashmir only'. Or 'Kashmir
first or nothing'. But Kashmiris a core issue. The other issues are
important. But they don't affect our relations as a whole. They are the
kinds of issues that exist between two neighbouring countries in the world,
even friendly countries like the US and Canada.
This approach requires vision, commitment and stamina. And we're fortunate
to have leaders like Mr Nawaz Sharif and Mr I.K. Gujral who have the vision
and the mutual empathy, the understanding of the other person's point of
view and respect for it even when they don't agree.
The media have a tremendous role. If we merely rubbish each other's point
of view, then we don't create that climate of public opinion.
Nor can you have it (better relations) by expecting either party to just
abandon its position.
Q: There is a 13-party coalition in India which Mr Gujral is trying to
preside over. In Pakistan, Mr Nawaz Sharif has got a mandate to resolve
the Kashmir issue. We have seen the storm in Parliament over an innocuous
statement by our Prime Minister that he was prepared to talk to Kashmiri
militants without preconditions. So a lot more is expected from Pakistan.
A: That is probably not the best way of looking at the problem. Pakistan
is actually the smaller country. India is the larger country. India may
have a particular political situation right now. But we're talking about
an issue which transcended political situations as they existed at any one
given time. There has to be some flexibility in the Indian position for us
to be able to have the prospect for which we are both working.
The Prime Minister has had a massive mandate but not a mandate to change
the position of Pakistan on Kashmir most certainly not. We understand that
Mr Gujral has to work within parameters - we understand that. Yet, the
task is urgent.
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