HVK Archives: There is a need to Indianise Islam?
There is a need to Indianise Islam? - The Asian Age
Bishwanath Ghosh
()
5 August 1997
Title: There is a need to Indianise Islam?
Author: Bishwanath Ghosh
Publication: The Asian Age
Date: August 5, 1997
Under your presidentship, the Bharatiya Janata Yuva Morcha has started
Muslim conferences across the country. What was the need for it?
A. After the Ayodhya movement, I began to be seen as an anti-Muslim,
because in our country, to talk about Hindutva is something anti-Muslim.
After I joined the Yuva Morcha in 1994, some Muslim youths came to see me.
My job so far was only to give speeches, but when they saw my functioning
they felt, Arre yeh Hindutva ki baart zarooor karti hai par Muslim virodhi
to nahin hai (she talks of Hindutva but is not against Muslims). They
started talking to their friends, and soon the word reached Jawaharlal
Nehru University Jamia Millia Islamia and Aligarl, Muslim University. In
Khajuraho, a large number of Muslims voted for me during the last
elections, even though I did not change my stand. They voted for the BJP in
Maharashtra, and Gujarat also. Their number might have, been very less,
but they still voted for us. Outlook had carried a survey on who the
Muslims wanted to see as the Prime Minister. Atalji ranked second after
Mulayam Singh Yaday. My name was also there much down in the list, but I
got more votes than Arjun Singh. From all these things, we felt that we
should have a dialogue with the Muslims. A dialogue, not to trap them like
other parties do. But to tell them what exactly our thinking is, to remove
the wrong notions about us. So we decided to hold Muslim conferences.
Q. You just said that a large number of Muslims voted for you even though
you did not change your stand. What is this stand?
A. Like building the temple in Ayodhya .and uniform civil code. Our stand
remains the same! Hum kisi ko dokhe main nahin rakhna chahte hain (we do
not want to keep them in the dark). But the air needs to be cleared. We
never say Muslims should go to Pakistan. Even I never said this - I am
talking about myself because I am considered to be the most fundamentalist.
We don't want that Muslims should be converted to Hindus. We don't want to
touch any mosque other than Kashi and Mathura. In Hubli (in Karnataka), we
clearly said that as long as we are alive no one can touch the Idgah but
let us hoist the tricolour in the Idgah Maidan. An impression is given
that if Article 370 is scrapped, Islam will be demolished. So this is all
the disinformation being spread. That Muslims will be tortured at the
hands of Hindus, not even a single mosque will remain if we came to power.
We want to remove these impressions.
Q. You said you will not touch any mosque other than those in Kashi and
Mathura. But the Kashi and Mathura movement does not seem to exist on
BJP's agenda...
A. (Smiles) It is not there on BJP's agenda, but it is on the agenda of
some other people. It is on Vishwa Hindu Parishad's agenda, it is on my
agenda. Whenever the movements are launched, I will participate in them.
But I will not cause any harm to the party. I will tell my leaders that I
want to take part in them and leave the decision to them. But I will
participate in the Kashi and Mathura movement because the BJP has not given
me a license to be a Hindu. I am a Hindu and they can't put a leash on my
sentiments. There are several others in the BJP who would also like to
join the movement.
Q. Bat will the BJP allow its leaders to participate in the movements after
the severe criticism it drew from Ayodhya?
A. I think the BJP should not join the movements at all. In fact, no
political party should be involved in it. If they do, they will suffer for
it. Let the VHP and the Sangh Parivar do it. Ayodhya was a different
matter. It was politicised way back in 1949 by Jawaharlal Nehru, Later on
the Babri Masjid Action Committee came into picture. Then came Rajiv
Gandhi and V.P. Singh. BJP was nowhere in the picture at that time.
Q. On one hand you are trying to win over Muslims, on the other you talk of
Kashi and Mathura.
A. See, we are only trying to remove the wrong impressions in their minds.
Of 100 Muslims against us, 90 are against only because of the false
propaganda about us. We will tell them about us, and leave it to them to
decide. We are not going to change any of our stands!
Q. Where do you place Muslims in the country?
A. Muslims and Hindus, both have responsibilities towards the nation.
Responsibilities come with rights. Right now, Muslims are being told to
fight for their rights, but nobody tells them about their responsibilities
towards the nation, the culture of the nation. If Article 370 is removed,
how are the Muslims in, say, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh or Maharashtra going to
be affected. Muslims should understand this. Secondly, the concept of
kaafir does not work here. Yeh desh 'hi' ka desh nahin 'bhi' ka desh hai
(in this country, we believe in 'also' and not 'only'. We don't believe
only we are right, we say we are also right. Quran is not the only
religious book, it is also a religious book. Islam is not the only
religion, but it is also a religion. Similarly, Hinduism is also a
religion, Gita is also a holy book. So to call someone a kaafir just
because he does not follow a religion does not apply here. Isiliye Islam ka
Bharatiyakaran hona chahiye, magar iska matlab yeh nahin ki uska Hindukaran
ho. Yeh baat clear honi chahiye (That is why Islam should be Indianised.
But it does not mean it should be dominated by Hinduism. Let this be very
clear). It is believed that the BJP and people like Uma Bharati want
Hindukaran of Islam. This is wrong! I like Muslims who offer namaaz and I
scold those who don't. I tell them Hindus are careless, at least you do
your duty.
Tell us something about the conferences. What exactly do you tell the
Muslims there?
A. We had a successful conference in Rajasthan, then in Delhi. We are going
to hold in Hyderabad this month. On September 3, we are holding a big
conference in Mewat (in Rajasthan) where a large number of Muslims from
Rajasthan and Haryana are going to come. They had invited me but I told
them I will come on only one condition: you have to pass a resolution
banning cow slaughter. They agreed to it.
These days I am getting so many invitations from Muslims that I am
wondering whether I will turn out to be a leader of the minorities. We tell
them three things: First, all other political parties have misused you as a
vote-bank. Second, we don't see you as a vote-bank set we are not going to
compromise on anything just to appease you, but if you have any problems,
tell us clearly. Third, you are Muslims of India, so you should reflect
Indian culture, If I start accepting all their invitations, I would be
spending all the 365 days attending Muslims' meetings!
Q. How did you manage this transformation from a staunch anti-Muslim image,
as you said?
A. There are two reasons. Muslims have seen through the games of other
political parties, who provide lip service for their cause. Secondly, the
performance of the BJP governments in various states. in Maharashtra, for
example, thousands of Muslims left for their hometowns during the 1992
riots. But when their so-called no. 1 enemy Shiv Sena and no. 2 enemy BJP
came to power, did they have to run away out of fear?
Q. So you are now looking forward to the Mewat meeting.
A. Yes, I have taken Advaniji's permission for it. He has also initiated
dialogues with Muslims. During his rath yatra in Bhopal, he had issued an
appeal to the Muslims and he deliberately issued this appeal because he
knows Muslims are getting attracted to the BJP. People might say BJP is
changing its colours to win them. No! We will talk to them while clad in
saffron only.
Q. There is a vacuum in the Muslim leadership in the BJP. Besides Mr
Sikander Bakht, you don't seem to have any leader of his stature.
A. Now they will start coming. In BJP, leadership is not imposed from the
top but it comes from the bottom. So they will be coming up very soon.
Q. The Prime Minister has promised to get the Women's Reservation Bill
passed in the current session. What do you say, should it be implemented in
the present form or should there be a separate provision for women from
other backward classes?
A. Their argument is that all women are the same, but the worst disparity
in the society can be found only among women. All men work, be he a
labourer or a shopkeeper. But the difference in lifestyles is reflected
most in the womenfolk. Isn't there a difference between a woman who drives
an Esteem and one who crushes stones? Isn't there a difference between a
woman sitting in her air-conditioned bedroom watching television and the
one working in the field? An Esteem-driving woman can never voice the
sentiments of a stone-crusher. This can be done only by the stone-crusher
herself. That is why I advocate reservation for OBC women also. The theory
of social justice will be incomplete without it. Even Muslim women should
be included in this. Not on the basis of religion, but if a party wants, it
can accommodate Muslims who are recognised as OBCs. It should he left to
the political parties.
Q. But your party does not agree with you.
A. The day I declared that I differ from my party, the same day I also
declared that I will fall in party line when the bill is put to vote. But
I deliberately made it open that I differ from my party because people
should know that someone in BJP also understands their problems.
Q. There appears to be a Brahmin-OBC divide in your party in Uttar Pradesh...
A. The friendship between Kalyan Singh and Kalraj Mishra should be a matter
of envy for. others. But the party is aware of such a divide in the
society and is trying to bridge the gap. That is why we joined hands with
BSP, despite the fact that the party is absolutely casteist. But we did so
for the uplift of the dalits in the state.
Q. Do you think the tie-up with BSP was the right step?
A. Yes, definitely. Kanshi Ram and Mulayam Singh together had become very
dangerous. Had their alliance continued, it would have led to a civil war
in the country. By making a dalit woman the chief minister, the BJP, which
was considered to be a party of the upper castes, has sent the right
message to the dalits.
Q. Are you in favour of extending this alliance to other states?
A. We will see when the times comes. But the BSP has realised a lot of
things now. After biting dust in Punjab, it has mellowed down. Today BSP
needs BJP more than BJP needs the BSP. We would like to impart our colour
of nationalism to the BSP.
Q. This reminds us of Mr Arun Shourie's book on Dr Ambedkar which was burnt
by some MPs in Parliament.
A. Unless it is something very insulting, people should have the right to
express their views. I have seen the book, I did not find anything highly
insulting or objectionable.
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