HVK Archives: Advantage Advani
Advantage Advani - The Sunday Observer
Varsha Bhosle
()
January 11-17, 1998
Title: Advantage Advani
Author: Varsha Bhosle
Publication: The Sunday Observer
Date: January 11-17, 1998
He lives in middling government quarters. In the twilight, the
street looks deserted, there's no sign of the Black Cats. It's a
simple house, unexpectedly middle elms - dunlop sofas, Ganpati
icons, beaded torans... A wife, a son, a daughter: Chhota
parivar, sukhi parivar. No, not that parivar. The son, a
businessman, has never been to an RSS shakha. Nor has the tele-
journalist daughter. I'm astounded: I expect the entire family to
be in khaki knickers.
Pratibha, didn't you undergo the discipline? "Dada never forced
us into anything. I stay away from politics, for if I report on
it, I'm bound to sound partisan. So I stick to cultural events."
She strikes a chord: I avoided the arts and went politic.
Just then, Shri Lal Kishanchand Advani enters the drawing room.
The dhoti, kurta, bandi are as I've seen in the photographs. What
takes me by surprise is Advaniji's height: he's a tall man, and
lean. Or perhaps his personality looms over everybody else's. The
first word that comes to my mind is 'tej'. Shine, glow,
luminescence... no, 'radiance' is what I mean. The other times
I've come across it is in a few film stars: Dharmendra, Hema
Malini and Arvind Swami. Not the best comparisons with the wintry
president of the Bharatiya Janata Party. But they all share that
quality of looking as if they've just stepped out from an
invigorating shower.
He stands stiff, almost at attention. I jump up. He joins his
hands and beckons me to his study: Two much-used sofas, a huge
desk, books, books, books... and a computer! Curiouser and
curiouser: he's wired. This terminal-junkie is dying to cheek out
if it's a swadeshi model laden with swadeshi software. Don't push
it, girl, I quell myself.
I'm extremely uncomfortable. Seriously, I've no clue what to say.
This definitely Isn't like the Dev Anand parley. He senses it I
think, for he begins to grill me. His Hindi is incredibly pure,
the pronunciation velvet clean, it's a pleasure to hear him
speak. It's all the more fascinating since he's taught himself
higher Hindi: Advaniji is convent-school-educated- what's often
brushed off as 'Macaulite'. Perhaps he detects my capacity for
the rashtrabhasha, for he soon shifts to English. I ramble on
with inanities. I'm quite shattered, really: It's horribly
obvious that he's never, ever, read me.
The wife arrives with paalak pakodas. Advaniji heaps a plate and
hands it to me. This is the first time in at least two years that
those despicable greens pass through my lips. I eat like I'm
there with the specific mission of cleaning out their digs. It's
one way to avoid answering.
Soon, a US-return nephew joins us, as does one of Pratibha's
media colleagues. Politics begins; I sigh with relief. They talk
about the Northeast, Ladakh, Parliament, the ministry... I'm
trying to file away his off-hand comments in my cluttered mind.
Advaniji asks, "Do you know the statistics of railway disasters
and accidents since Ram Vilas Paswan has taken over! It's the
highest in these 50 years. What accountability are you talking
about? Which newspaper has thought of questioning it?"
Nephew replies, "I agree the UF will conceal it. But it's not
just a BJP issue! Hasn't it come to the attention of other
Opposition parties?" Advaniji and I exclaim together, "WHAT OTHER
OPPOSITION PARTIES?!" There's a roar of laughter. Thin cracks
run through the ice...
The conversation scurries through Gujarat ("Shankarsinh was taken
back after being expelled as the party didn't want Gujarat to
become an election issue") and Punjab ("Almost all the Sikhs in
the rest of India voted for the BJP. Since the Akalis feel that
they represent the whole community, we were their natural ally in
Punjab") and Maharashtra ("There are some differences in the
styles of functioning, but largely, the alliance government has
done well") and, finally, to one of my bete noires - women's
reservations.
I'm simply Itching to get a word in edgeways and quiz Mr Advani.
But, as through most of the evening, Nephew holds forth while
Advaniji sits still, his fingers joined to a steeple, head
slightly tilted down, and eyes squeezed to their characteristic
cracks when that sardonic smile plays at the corner of his lips.
Impatient now, I interject: Yes but... The man suddenly looks up,
stabs his finger at me and says quite ominously, "I KNOW you are
against reservations." I physically recoil, then think: Gotcha...
you're familiar with me...
"I think there should be reservations for women. Why just the
BJP, the whole country will benefit from more women in all sorts
of occupations. In my personal experience, for instance in
Parliament and the press, I've found that women are stauncher,
less corrupt and more principled than their male counterparts.
Though many will never agree to it, there is an undeniable case
for women's reservations."
The press, eh? Clever, clever, clever. I sass him with, And now
I know why you're the president of the BJP... He throws back his
head and guffaws. The ice shatters. I'm ready to leave.
By a quirk in Delhi's traffic, I'm at 11 Ashok 40 minutes before
the appointed hour for the interview. The office hasn't quite
woken up; the lethargy's evident in the karmachari who glares at
me, glares pointedly at the clock and lets me sit. I'm resigned
to a long wait. Minutes later, Mr Advani strides in, sees me,
looks at the. clock with one eyebrow cocked, and continues to his
office. In seconds, the peon calls me in. Kreeeegaah ... !
The office is as I'd expected: Spartan. Like yesterday, Advaniji
has a look of controlled motion about him, like a tiger coiled to
spring. It's damn unnerving. There's also an aura of impatience
and impending doom about him today... I've a list of some 20
questions, but when he looks at me expectantly, I pledge half.
Since I'm often told, 'It's the economy, stupid!' I begin with
it:
It seems to me like the concept of Swadeshi is being used to
protect the Interests of our industrialists. Or why is the BJP
hindering multinationals and globalisation?
The party, isn't against multinationals at all. However, what is
needed is a clear understanding that the country's interests, are
primary. Without a strong domestic industry, how can a country
prosper? The West insists that we open up our market to imports
of all sorts of goods. But why should India succumb to pressure
if it isn't in her interest?
How did countries like Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc, overtake India
in just 50 years.? Briefly, because India failed to initiate the
dynamo of nationalism on the developmental front. Other countries
encouraged native companies by allowing them to import
technology, ensuring large domestic markets via supportive fiscal
policies, and bolstering exports through incentives. But, till
1991, India's Nehruvian socialistic policies inhibited indigenous
entrepreneurship. The BJP is totally dissatisfied with what has
actually been achieved since then, but internal liberalization is
a policy we have been pleading for since decades! We have pledged
to enhance the pace of liberalisation, welcome foreign investment
in infrastructure and hi-tech sectors, and dismantle bureaucratic
barriers created by the license-permit raj.
Our aim should be to modernise rapidly, but with as little
westernisation as possible. 'Liberalise first, and globalise in
stages,' said Japan's Okita. It is this point that goes
ununderstood, and then, the BJP is accused of being obscurantist
and growth-hindering.
Why did the BJP rake up the issue of the uniform civil code if it
was going to wilt under the pressure from minorities and so-
called secularists?
The uniform civil code is an issue cited in the Constitution -
the BJP did not pull it out of thin air. Every government is
enjoined upon to take measures for the implementation of the
proposal.
The question of our abandoning our manifesto does not arise: If
Jinnah couldn't make Gandhiji renege on his basic beliefs in Ram
Dhun, Ram Rajya, cow protection or Vande Mataram, the BJP need
not worry about adhering to its position.
Our criminal law is secular and has nothing to do with the
Shariat. And yet, it has readily been accepted by the minorities.
I sincerely believe that if they're given an opportunity to think
unhindered by the propaganda from vote-bank politicians, they
will voluntarily embrace the UCC. So far, Muslims have been
treated merely as dumb vote banks, whereas we consider them equal
partners in building a new India. The UCC fosters equality and
amalgamation.
I doubt if Issues like the Ram Janmabhoomi can allay Muslims'
fears.
Like the UCC, the Ayodhya movement, too, is part of our battle
against vote bank politics. If not for the Babri Masjid Action
Committee, formed soon after the Shah Banu case, and the
overpowering support it received from the so-called secular
parties, we may not have taken up these issues so firmly. The
tragedy is that vote bank politics has distorted the people's
perspective.
But you, too, have created a vote bank - the Hindu one.
(Laughs) Is there such a thing? Let me ask you, would you support
the BJP merely because its leadership is Hindu?
Well, in a sense, I do.
What is "in a sense"?
The Hindutva sense. You know, everyone must be equal before the
law, no one community should have special benefits...
(Smiles) But isn't this what secularism ordains?
It's supposed to.
And did the BJP introduce that idea to you?
Not to me, no.
So would it be fair to say that we gave your needs a platform?
Excuse me, sir, but I'm interviewing you. The point is, some
Hindus vote for you only because they are Hindu.
That percentage is very small. There was a lot of bitterness
fomenting in the common man. It's possible that Hindu reaction
would have been far worse if we hadn't channeled it into the
political arena.
But hardliners are unhappy about the BJP going soft on Ayodhya...
Hindutva, or cultural nationalism, is our way of thinking, and it
echoes in all our decisions and campaigns. If there is a
development immediately preceding an election which impinges on
Hindutva, it becomes heightened. If there is none, it is not
there.
Meaning ... ?
There's no ambivalence. I believe that Ayodhya has been
internalised by the nation. It is a reality. It's significant
that no political party talks about restoring the mosque. A
member of the UF government said that the idols would be removed
- and he lost his job. However, it is important to remember that
the BJP cannot be a one-issue party.
Even so, the BJP is politically isolated today.
I wouldn't say that at all. We have alliances with the Shiv
Sena, the HVP, the Akalis and the Samata Party. The anti-BJP-ism
that you see is not because of differences in ideology - it is
because of the growing strength of the BJP.
Do you deny that the erosion in internal discipline has played
havoc with the party's image?
Soon after the developments in Gujarat and Rajasthan, our
popularity was put to test at a number of by-elections. The fact
that we easily won all those seats indicates that, despite the
distress over the indiscipline in the ranks, support for the BJP
still continues.
The press expects total discipline from us - but not from the
Janata Dal or the Congress. I tell my colleagues, that itself is
a feather in our cap.
What do you suppose are the reasons for this expectation? Can
you rise to it?
Most of the party leaders have an RSS background, and it's this
that gives the BJP an image of a cadre-based party. But ours is a
mass party where anybody who says that he believes in our
ideology and programmes and agrees to abide by the party's codes,
can become a member. This creates obstacles, but within our
limitations, we will ensure that bad elements are removed.
What Is the party's position on the dispossessed Kashmiri
Pandits?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: It is a disgrace that.
even after, 50 years of Independence, citizens of this country
have been thrown out of their state. It is eight years since
insurgency began in Kashmir, and the government has still done
nothing about the victims. While great concern is shown for the
human rights of insurgents, there's nothing but callousness
towards Kashmiri Pandits. So also, for the large number of
Partition refugees from Pakistan who went to J&K; three
generations have been denied basic human rights, including the
status of citizenship, right to own property and claim to a
government job. Both groups are Hindu and Sikh refugees.
The BJP claims that it rejects caste politics. But In UP, it is
mired in caste formulae.
The BJP is variously described as North Indian, Brahminical,
bania, elitist, urban... We have disproved all such notions. But
now that we have broken the party's upper caste image, there's
bound to be vitriol. But I don't want to comment on UP just yet.
Just then, there's a knock, and a man hurtles into the room.
Advaniji regards him coolly and says to me, "Ab aap mujhe kshama
kijiye." Brilliant journalist that I am, I leave the premises.
En route to the airport, Aai (Asha Bhosle) has been invited to
tea by Advaniji. Perhaps it's something to do with the old girl's
naivete, for the entire three hours pass without a political idea
advanced. What can be said after the mater looks totally blank
at the mention of Prime. Minister I K Gujral: "Yeh apne naye
information-broadcast minister hain kya?" I quietly die. She
goes a step further: "Aap ka sab-se pyaara gaana kaunsa hai?" OH
GAWD, this is the BJP prez, Mom! But to my shock, Advaniji
begins to look quite animated...
"Mujhe 'Jyoti kalsh chhalke' bahut pasand hai." And he starts to
hum it. I can only gape. The mater unexpectedly shows a flash of
this-worldness: "Aapko Babuji pasand aayenge hi..." Babuji is the
song's composer, Sudhir Phadke, an RSS veteran.
But the tone for the evening has been set. I get a glimpse of
the man away from his rath... "I like ghazals. In jail during
the Emergency, I used to listen to tapes of Mehdi Hasan." He
talks about his love for the theatre., "I used to regularly watch
the National School of Drama plays. Very fine actors, Om Puri and
Naseeruddin Shah. I'm told that Marathi plays are very
progressive, but I've seen only one, Ti Phulraani. Does Bhakti
Barve still act?" But even though I consider myself a mild sort
of fundie, ever ready to separate politics from art, I'm not
prepared for: "I liked Smita Patil, over all. Now, my favourite
is Shabana Azmi." Well! A pinko-Mosie-fanatic! Still, I've to
admit, he has a good eye - it's a Scorpio thing (November 8, him;
14th, me). We've deteriorated from filmi stars to astral ones.
To draw him back to his stomping grounds, I ask, How do film
stars do in Parliament? "I must say, Nargis used to be quite
active. Sometimes, Sunil Dutt spoke up. But I never heard a word
>from Rajesh Khanna." (If you remember, Mr Khanna had the
misfortune to contest Mr Advani. The Congress has some very
weird ideas about the Opposition.) And then, "Shabana has been
nominated to the Rajya Sabha. Harrummph!
The BJP has a surfeit of good orators, like Pramod Mahajan,
Sushma Swaraj, Sundar Singh, Uma Bharati - does the RSS impart
special training "No, no. The only party which consciously did it
was the DMK. When we were young (I was a journalist at the
time), Atalji, even then, gave such extraordinary speeches that I
developed a complex about public-speaking. I don't think I have
gotten over it. . . " Just then, Pratibha reminds us of our
flight. Talk about timing...
In Bombay the next day, I read the headlines and calculate: As he
sat entertaining us, Advaniji had known about Mayawati's having
pulled the plug on Kalyan Singh. And he'd known the rumble
during the interview. I bang my head on the wall. I start to
write... But, life interferes; I leave town for a month.
It's mid-December. Bombay seems unusually cool, but in my lot is
heat - radiated by a furious editor. I yell back, Elections are
in two months; how will I pin him for an update, you nit? And
then, luck shines down: The RSS has a puja in Bhayandar and
Advaniji is in town. He doesn't have much time. I run through it
like hell:
The Left has named the BJP as its "main target" in the elections.
Which is the BJP's?
This is precisely the mindset I avoid. We will not take a
negative approach. We'll focus on our strengths and present those
to the public. Uske baad, jo ishwar ki ichchha...
Do you consider the UF a serious adversary?
The UF has no programme except keeping us at bay and it has no
prime-ministerial material. The press is projecting Jyoti Basu,
but how many people outside Bengal have seen or heard him? We
have a candidate, Vajpayeeji, whom all the people know and
respect. And it's the people who'll give the verdict.
At this point of time, is your proximity to the RSS wise?
The RSS, which is a body of dedicated public workers not directly
in politics, is a source of great strength to us. Our relation is
not a cloak-and-dagger affair. The BJP takes its own political
decisions and the RSS's sage counsel is always invaluable.
Shyama Prasad Mukherjee [founder of Jan Sangh] was not an RSS
member; nor was Shekhawat; in fact, quite a few of our MLAs and
MPs are not.
Will Kashi and Mathura be on the election manifesto?
Even before the Places of Worship Act, we had declared that Kashi
and Mathura are not on the BJP's agenda. We took up Ayodhya
because a sessions court had declared it a de facto temple by
issuing an injunction that the idols cannot be removed, and yet
all other political parties, prompted by their so-called
secularism, started campaigning that the mosque be restored.
Is the BJP going to dilute its Hindutva?
Hindutva will be alive and potent as long as pseudo-secularists
will it to be - it is up to them. Instability, corruption and
the fall in ethical standards are the issues plaguing India today
- and those are the ones we will embrace.
Reports say you have reserved 5 per cent of tickets for
Muslims...
That is a typical lie from the press. We welcome Muslims to the
BJP - but we have reserved no chunk for any section of Indians..
The community has realised that we are not anti-Muslim, and we
don't need to lure them with appeasing tactics.
The BJP is accused of allying with dubious parties like the BSP
In the quest for power.
Our alliance with the' BSP was a caste-harmonising experiment
that failed. Even so, it has helped erase the notion that the BJP
is anti-Dalit. All our alliances will be pre-election.
The BJP is encouraging defections...
Why is it that when Vaghela splits from us, it's "an act of
conscience," but when Agarwal supports Kalyan Singh, it's a
defection?
What kind of a chance does the BJP have at winning?
Already, Laloo Yadav has split the UF; the Janata Dal is in
pieces; Mulayam is teaming with the Congress; Kesri will lose
Mamata Banerjee... (Grins)Aap dekhte rahiye ki Congress se hume
kitni sahaayata milegi...
You mean, Congressmen will be joining BJP?!
Wait and watch... The public is not blind. What kind of stability
can these fractured parties give India? The BJP-led alliance
will be returned with a comfortable majority.
It's not easy to probe a trained Journalist. And how does one
question a symbol? I'm at a loss as I prepare to write my
assessment of perhaps the most controversial politician in modern
India. But for his ideology and some surface flashes, Advaniji
does not reveal much. He's tightly closed, cool, very calm, and
always in control. Then I recall a snatch.... Then I recall a
snatch...
"I studied in Karachi but my family is from Hyderabad, Sindh. In
1978, I went to Pakistan and visited my old school. In the old
days, there used to be a stall selling paalak pakodas nearby - I
often ate there. As I walked down the road that day, I was amazed
to find that the stall still existed. Earlier, it used to be run
by a Gujarati Hindu; now it was run by a Gujarati Muslim..."
Sure, most of us reconcile and learn to forget our losses. But
there always are people once bitten, twice alert. Those who
fortify their gates. Those who won't play dead. Those who will,
in fact, forestall further attacks - on the integrity of India
and her ancient culture. For, without the vigilance of soldiers,
there cannot be candlelight vigils even at Civilisation's
frontiers: The parallax view is at play again... I think Advaniji
is someone that history will inevitably have to reassess.
The press has always been generous with Atalji, and merciless
towards him. For he carries the stigmata of Babri. It's no
accident that he likes to repeat, "I learnt a long time ago that
it's very difficult to change an individual's mindset. I have
accepted this as a fact of life." Accepted, yes. Surrendered,
no. For even his critics cannot deny his activism - one now honed
by the pragmatism required to beat the system at its own game.
In the mystery that surrounds him, and will perhaps always
surround him in my mind, only one thing seems clear to me - he
will never find what he is seeking. For it does not exist. It is
an illusion called justice.
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