Author: Kamran Khan and Molly Moore
Publication: The Washington Post
Date: December 12, 2001
Islamabad, Pakistan, Dec. 11 - Two
Pakistani nuclear scientists reportedly have told investigators they conducted
long discussions about nuclear, chemical and biological weapons with suspected
terrorist Osama bin Laden in August in the Afghan capital of Kabul, according
to Pakistani officials familiar with the interrogations of the men.
Pakistani intelligence officials
said they believe that the two retired nuclear scientists -- who have been
under questioning for more than two months -- used an Afghan relief organization
partially as a cover to conduct secret talks with bin Laden.
The Pakistani officials characterized
the discussions between the scientists and bin Laden as "academic" and
said they have no evidence the information resulted in the creation or
production of any type of weapon.
The reported admissions by Sultan
Bashiruddin Mahmood, who held key appointments in each of Pakistan's three
most important nuclear facilities, and his associate, Abdul Majid, represent
a turnabout from their earlier claims that they met with bin Laden only
to discuss their charitable endeavors in Afghanistan, according to the
accounts provided by Pakistani intelligence authorities.
Mahmood and Majid, who are being
detained at an undisclosed location, could not be reached to confirm the
purported statements described by Pakistani officials. Because the interrogations
are being conducted in secrecy, it is impossible to determine the nature
of the investigatory techniques being used. Neither of the men have been
charged with a crime.
Officials here said the Pakistani
government is considering charging Mahmood and Majid with violating the
national official secrets act, a crime that carries a seven-year jail term.
It would be the first known case of a nuclear official charged with that
offense, officials said.
Pakistani officials said Mahmood
-- who had experience in uranium enrichment and plutonium production but
was not involved in bomb-building -- had neither the knowledge nor the
experience to assist in the construction of any type of nuclear weapon.
The scientists were not believed to be experts in chemical or biological
weaponry.
Pakistan has been under pressure
from the U.S. government to pursue the investigation of the scientists'
relationship with bin Laden at a time of heightened concerns by U.S. authorities
that bin Laden may have acquired nuclear, biological or chemical materials,
or weapons. The investigation was a major issue discussed during CIA Director
George J. Tenet's recent visit to Pakistan, according to U.S. and Pakistani
officials.
Though neither U.S. nor Pakistani
officials say they have evidence that bin Laden has obtained any such material,
intelligence agencies for both countries have indicated they believe he
has sought it.
Pakistani officials familiar with
the investigation said representatives of the CIA and Pakistan's Inter-Services
Intelligence agency are in contact almost daily concerning the investigation.
Pakistani authorities said Mahmood
and Majid changed their accounts recently after they were presented with
compelling evidence of their relationship with bin Laden. The evidence
was provided to authorities here by the CIA, but Pakistani intelligence
officials declined to describe it.
Mahmood and Majid reportedly met
with bin Laden; his top lieutenant, Egyptian Ayman Zawahiri; and two other
al Qaeda officials several times over two or three days in August at a
compound in Kabul, the Pakistani officials said.
The scientists described bin Laden
as intensely interested in nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.
Mahmood and Majid said bin Laden
indicated that he had obtained, or had access to, some type of radiological
material that he said had been acquired for him by the radical Islamic
Movement of Uzbekistan. The scientists said they left the meetings believing
that bin Laden had some such material, but Pakistani officials said they
have been unable to verify those claims.
The scientists reportedly said bin
Laden asked how the material could be made into a weapon or something usable.
They also said they told him it would not be possible to manufacture a
weapon with the material he might have.
Pakistani officials noted that organizations
and individuals throughout South and Central Asia have frequently approached
Pakistani officials offering to sell nuclear materials smuggled from nuclear
facilities in former Soviet republics.
The scientists have insisted they
provided no material or specific plans to bin Laden, but rather engaged
in wide ranging "academic" discussions, Pakistani officials said.
"They spoke extensively about weapons
of mass destruction," one Pakistani official said. The official described
the scientists as "very motivated" and "extremist in their ideas," but
added they were "discussing things that didn't materialize, but fall under
the breaking secrets act."
U.S. officials recently have expressed
concerns that bin Laden could have access to radiological materials that
could be combined with conventional explosives to create a "dirty bomb."
Though far less potent than a nuclear weapon, such a device could nonetheless
contaminate several city blocks with radiation if exploded, according to
experts.
Mahmood, who received one of Pakistan's
highest civilian honors for nearly three decades of work in the country's
nuclear programs specializing in uranium enrichment, was largely forced
out of his job through a demotion in 1999. Officials were concerned about
his vocal advocacy of producing an extensive amount of weapons-grade plutonium
and enriched uranium to help equip other Islamic nations with nuclear arsenals.
After his departure, Mahmood continued
to espouse his views in public speeches, and one friend recalled that Mahmood
said his knowledge about Pakistan's nuclear program was a state secret,
but not his expertise on enriching uranium and producing weapons-grade
plutonium.
Majid worked for Pakistan's Atomic
Energy Commission until 1999.
After Mahmood was forced out, he
helped start an organization called Ummah Tameer-e-Nau (Islamic Reconstruction),
which he described as a relief agency dedicated to construction and redevelopment
projects in Afghanistan. The Pakistani government gave Mahmood and some
of his associates, including Majid, permission to travel to Afghanistan
three times this year, including one visit after the Sept. 11 attacks in
New York and on the Pentagon, according to Pakistani officials.
Mahmood reportedly told investigators
he met several times with Mohammad Omar, leader of the Taliban militia
that then ruled Afghanistan, during a long visit to Kandahar in mid-summer.
He is said to have discussed a flour mill his agency operated in Kandahar,
as well as the need for alternative agricultural programs to persuade farmers
to stop growing poppies for opium production. At one point in that visit,
Omar introduced Mahmood to bin Laden, officials said.
Mahmood said he did not discuss
any issues related nuclear, chemical or biological weapons in his first
meeting with bin Laden, describing it as an introductory encounter in which
he discussed his relief program.
Mahmood and Majid returned to Afghanistan
in August, traveling to Kabul, where they held extensive meetings with
bin Laden and his associates, the officials said. Omar was not present
at any of the sessions, they said.
After the Sept. 11 bombings, the
two scientists returned to Kandahar, where they met with Omar, but not
with bin Laden, they said. The scientists said they never discussed nuclear,
chemical or biological issues with Omar.
Pakistani authorities have detained
or questioned at least seven members of Mahmood's relief agency in connection
with the investigation, including two air force general officers, an army
one-star general, a third nuclear scientist, a well-known Pakistani industrialist
and at least one financial officer of the organization, according to Pakistani
officials. The two air force officers, the third nuclear scientist and
the industrialist have been released. The others remain under detention.
U.S. officials have long raised
concerns about the safety of Pakistan's nuclear program and the reliability
of some of its scientists. Pakistan is believed to have the materials to
assemble between 30 and 40 warheads, and has test-fired intermediate-range
missiles that potentially could be used to launch the warheads, according
to intelligence reports and nuclear experts. Both Pakistan and neighboring
India tested underground nuclear devices in 1998, and the two countries
are viewed by many security experts as the globe's most worrisome nuclear
flash point.
Khan reported from Karachi. Researcher
Robert Thomason in Washington contributed to this report.