Author: Vijay Simha
Publication: Tehelka
Date: September 24, 2005
Introduction: To bust a myth first. At 34,
Rahul Gandhi is not a reluctant politician. He is raring to go, and has his
priorities laid out. Only, he wants to do his politics differently - his way.
He doesn't want to rep what he calls the mistakes of the past. He doesn't
like talking to the media but invited Vijay Simha for what became an hour-long
interview, his first major one.
Rahul was unstoppable once he got going. At
times he was like an express train, moving from thought to thought at great
speed. He had good fun, laughing at many things, and went over several aspects
of his personality. He is free with his hands, and likes to make gestures
to stress a point while he speaks. Every time he cracked a joke, he hitched
up the sleeves of his white kurta.
Several television crews lined up outside
the Munshiganj guesthouse in Amethi where the interview was granted. There
were about 20 security personnel inside the gates, more than half from the
SPG They had dozed off by the time the interview was over. Rahul is just beginning
his career but is already expected to be adept at performing miracles. Maybe
he will, in time.
Q.: I've been driving around Amethi and my
bones are rattled. Someone like you should be able, to do so much, and yet
things don't look good. What's happening?
A.: If you want to know what's going on here, you need to understand that
there are lots of issues. I am a Member of Parliament, and an MP can't do
much. I get Rs 2 crore (under the MP Local Area Development Scheme). That
allows me to lay 8 kilometres of road. That's it.
But we have been able to get 500 kilometres
of road laid in Amethi. To me that's an achievement. What can I do beyond
that? Nothing. You've seen the place. Nothing works here except the Sanjay
Gandhi Hospital. However, I can't blame the state government and say everything
is their fault. My men do that but I can't.
So I use my influence. I know that my voice
counts. I go to the ministers at the Centre and tell them, bhaiyya yeh kar
do, bhaiyya woh kar do (please do this, please do that). I fold my hands and
plead with them. It works and I am able to get something done.
Q.: The rest of Uttar Pradesh also looks in
bad shape.
A.: Uttar Pradesh and Bihar are in a different category it appears. You can
travel right across these two states but you won't find a trace of governance
here. There is no functioning government in UP and Bihar, and so there is
no governance. There is a total collapse of the administrative system in these
states. Nothing happens here.
Q.: So how come you still back the Mulayam
Singh government?
A.: That cannot go on. I don't support that (the UP government) at all. I
am not going to bat out this one. I'll do something about it.
Q.: What makes someone like you support people
like Mulayam and Laloo Yadav?
A.: I can't go around telling people what to do about Mulayam and Laloo. There
are senior Congress leaders involved in this, and they take the decisions.
It is not just the issue of support; there are lots of other things. These
are tricky questions, and a lot of people ask me about this. But it doesn't
work that way, that one fine day we decide we don't want to go along with
them and that's it. It is a complex issue, and I don't want to go into it
right now. Let's get back to development.
Q.: How do you work in Amethi?
A.: Ah. Now that's a question I like. I work through NGOs, and that doesn't
interest the media. The media wants things done like this (snaps his fingers).
They want everything done yesterday. But it doesn't work like that. India
is a country of 1.5 billion people. We have a network Of NG0s but it takes
time.
Look at Amethi. Do you know that we have been
able to educate 40,000 people? If you come to Amethi after a month, you will
find every Congress worker teaching children in his or her house. Each one
will teach one or two children. That is the way I work. That is meaningful
work. You will be foolish; I will be foolish to say that I am going to do
things in a week. I am not going to do things in a week. That is not the way
I am. That is not the idea.
Q.: Is IT (Information Technology) a good
tool for this?
A.: There is excessive hype about IT in India. It affects only a few people,
and I can't see why so much is made of it. There is no doubt that IT is a
growing area, but I am looking at empowering the multitude. I think education
is the way to go. We simply can't progress until we give people in places
like this (Amethi) a chance. I agree that good work is being done in Karnataka
and Tamil Nadu, but that is not the case elsewhere.
Q.: Are you failing to do what you want top?
A.: My idea of politics is not to do things in a week. If somebody wants to
come to me and say that I have failed, well fine... I am not failing. I am
succeeding. If there's anything being done anywhere in Uttar Pradesh, it is
in Amethi. In fact, no other MP in the country is doing as much as I am.
Q.: I kind of feel sad at the way things are.
A.: Then you have not understood the point. Pity is not the emotion to summon.
People are tough here. They are positive, and they go about their lives in
the best way they can. I think there's a fabulous lesson for us the way people
conduct themselves in Amethi.
Q.: Well in that sense yes.
A.: You know, I am sorry to say this but you seem to have come to Amethi with
arrogance. You seem to think that these guys know nothing. They don't know
how to fix things.
Q.: I did think on those lines.
A.: Let me tell you about arrogance. My first lesson in arrogance in my professional
life came from a bathroom in the UK. I was doing consultancy for a firm in
England. They were into distribution, you know, getting things around. I had
one look and I thought these guys know nothing. I can fix things in a day
or two. I did what I was asked to. My boss was pleased.
He gave me another responsibility. Something
else in the same organisation that needed fixing. It was a mess. I had already
done my first job well. So I was confident I had the answer. I thought, man,
bar codes are the solution. We can fix things by having different bar codes
for different products. The boss looked at me quietly. He told me I was good
at my job, and asked me to have a look at the office bathroom.
The bathroom was full of graffiti. This guy
is like that, that guy is like this etc. Suddenly it hit me. All the bar codes
in the world wouldn't have helped. The problem was something else. That, my
friend, is arrogance. It is one bathroom lesson I haven't forgotten. That
is the arrogance you have to deal with. When I take life this way, I stop
thinking that the other guy is a joker. I realise I am the joker.
Q.: Are these values part of your polities?
A.: I am not in politics to believe that I know everything. I do not arrogate
to myself the belief that I am the repository of wisdom. I do not believe
in the Indian tradition that there is one repository of knowledge, and that
this repository is going to do everything. I am not like that.
I believe that you know more than me in the
job that you do. The guy who fixes the air-conditioner at my place knows more
than me about air-conditioning. The person who sweeps outside my house knows
more about sweeping than I do. My job in politics is to transmit the knowledge
that people have from one person to another. This outlook is central to my
life. I hope that I will have the ability to learn till the day I die.
Q.: Why did you get in to polities?
A.: You mean what is my goal My goal is take India to the number one slot.
Everyone under the age of 30 has to have a shot. For that, I can't afford
to make the same mistakes of the past.
Q.: How was family on this?
A.: My family is a great learning place. They know what I want to do - make
India the number 1. For that, my family taught me to he humble. I was told
how to respect what others do, and not to assume that I know everything.
Q.: How important is humility?
A.: Without humility I would be nowhere. I could have been prime minister
at the age of 25 if I wanted to. But I decided I wouldn't do things in that
fashion. I would not go around yelling at my seniors, boy you guys, you can't
do this or you can't do that. I could easily have done it. But I believe that
unless I am able to bring something to the table, I must not take up anything.
I must be able to bring something to the table.
Q.: Surely you are able to bring something
more to the table now.
A.: Of course. I can certainly take something more to the table now. But that
is not enough. I believe in educating oneself. I believe in going out, finding
out for yourself what it's like and then learning to do something to improve
things. I am still learning. I am very clear about what I want to do. I will
not do politics like the way some others do. I will not do it. I will do politics
my way and in my time. Nobody can force me to do anything. My idea of politics
is very different from what is being done now.
Q.: Are you saying you are not ready to get
into the Congress Working Committee?
A.: You really need to take something along where you go. It will be wrong
if people put pressure on me. As a CWC member I can't tell the prime minister
not to do something. I can't tell senior ministers and senior party leaders
not to do something. That will be awkward. That will happen if I am pushed
into it.
Q.: Is it yes or no?
A.: I will get into the CWC. I will take more responsibility in the party.
After all I am in politics. But I have my own clear plans. Of course, I'll
take my place at the appointed time. But the media is always in a hurry. They
want to know when I am going to do this or do that. I am not like the other
politicians. I am not like those blokes who believe they don't have a job
if they are not seen on television, or if they are not in the CWC or whatever
else. The media may never ask me anything again, and it's fine with me. You
may never want to see me again but I won't be rushed into anything because
you want it that way.
Q.: What about your mother? Can you say no
to her?
A.: (Laughs) I am a stubborn person. My mother can come to me, sit in front
of me, and tell me do this, or do that. My sister can join my mother and do
the same thing. But if my mind is made up, then I will not do it. My mother
can tell me a 100 times, but I won't do something if I don't want to.
Q.: How was it with your father?
A.: I'll tell you one of my last conversations with my father. We were sitting
together, and I asked him what would you do if you were out of politics. He
told me he would retire and spend the rest of his time in a village. That
is the kind of person I am. Where do you get your belief?
I get my belief from my people.
Q.: You mean people as in family?
A.: No, I mean the people from Amethi whom I come to. You should see the belief
they have in me. Each one thinks I can do things for them. When I see that,
I get huge strength and I can actually do it for them.
Q.: People are fickle. The same people can
go against you. How do you plan to deal with that?
A.: My personality is made. I am done. There is nothing more to be made of
me. I am what I am. My strength comes from me, not from what happens outside
of me. I am not going to change inside. I am prepared for things going the
other way. I understand I can't always have things my way.
Q.: What about the Congress? Does it think
the same way about you?
A.: There is fear of failure here. People keep saying what if this goes wrong,
what if that doesn't work. Every time I want to do something, there is this
fear that it may go wrong. It comes up each time.
Q.: Are you afraid of failure?
A.: No. I think one can't be a complete human being if one has not dealt with
failure. If I am to be a complete politician I think I must lose a couple
of elections. I cannot be a good politician if I don't lose elections. It
rounds up a personality. I am not afraid of losing. That is part of life.
You probably think that way because you have
gone inward. You may have detached yourself from possessions.
(Long pause) If you are going to ask me to
sleep on a wooden bed for the rest of my life, I am not going to say let's
begin. It's not that I have detached myself from possessions. That would be
good when I am older, say 45 or so. It is a good thing, to be detached. One
must head towards it, maybe when I am older.
Q.: What is this about your reluctance for
polities?
That is bullshit. People keep saying I am shy. Oh, he's so shy. The media
says it all the time. I am not at all shy. I am not reluctant. I am an extrovert.
I am like that all the time. You can ask my friends. I am the one who talks
the most. I am the one making plans when we get together.
Q.: Why did you go to Hamburg?
A.: I am not going to learn if I don't go to other countries. Here, people
keep asking why I travel abroad. I am not going to do politics the way these
people have done. I am not going to spin the same old wheels. When I meet
people from other countries, they ask me about our problems. I think that
if they are asking me this, there must be something wrong with the way we
do things. How are we going to correct it? Not by doing the same things that
people have been doing for years.
I'll tell you one of my experiences in Hamburg.
There was this president of a small country, a young guy who I am not going
to name. He sat in front of me, and was quiet for a long while. Then he looked
at me and said it all depends on aid. Everything depends on aid. I wondered
what's wrong with this guy. How can development rest on aid? Then he laid
it out for me. He broke it up into little facts and showed me how important
aid is. I go to Hamburg and this is what I get. How am I going to pick up
something like this in India? How can I learn anything if I stay put in India
and keep doing the same things as everybody else? I need to keep an open mind.
Q.: What about other trips?
A.: I'll tell you about one of the conferences I attended in Switzerland.
There were prime ministers and presidents. I listened to what they were saying.
They were idealistic and talking of how things must improve for the weakest
person in their country. I told them that as long as they think like that,
their countries would never have a problem.
Q.: All right. But why don't you ask questions
in Parliament, or speak on issues at home?
A.: I don't ask questions in Parliament because I like to think things through.
Just look around at the questions that are asked in Parliament, and you'll
know why I don't ask questions. I mean look at them. S***, is that the kind
of stuff you want me to ask?
Q.: I can't remember any of the questions
anyway.
A.: But surely you remember my question on sugarcane farmers. You remember
it because I asked it and something was done immediately for the farmers (the
farmers' dues were cleared). That is the kind of question I like to ask. A
question that leads to action.
Q.: I remember it because you had asked it.
A.: That's the point. I am different. I am not like the other politicians.
Anybody who wants me to do what the others are doing is making a mistake.
I take pains and learn about an issue. Only when I am properly educated, do
I go ahead. I have a team of people and we look into everything minutely.
I am not going to repeat what the others do, inside or outside Parliament.
Q.: Is your approach working?
A.: It is. We won most of the pradhan seats in Amethi (in the recently concluded
panchayat elections in UP). But the media is not screaming about it. Why do
you think we won? Because we do things differently, and people appreciate
it. I am in politics, not journalism. You can write bullshit and get way with
it. I can't do it in politics.
Q.: You sound good now. What if you change
along the way?
A.: (Long pause) I have a feeling that you will come to me 10 years later
and say what the hell, you compromised on this, you compromised on that. In
a country like ours I may need to compromise. But if I remain pure inside,
it's all right.
