Author:
Publication: The Indian Express
Date: July 27, 2010
URL: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/there-have-been-600-encounters-in-up-and-j/652221/
Q.: guest this week is the youngest president of a major political party in
our history. Nitin Gadkari, new to the job but never out of news. What keeps
you in the news?
A.: I speak from my heart about whatever I'm asked. Sometimes the media finds
news in it. Like I didn't say anything wrong about Afzal Guru. Our security
forces laid down their lives to protect Parliament. The accused has been given
a death sentence by the High Court and the Supreme Court. It's been six years
now and he has still not been punished. It is unfortunate that the then Union
Home Minister asked the Delhi Chief Minister to hold back the file for 4-5
years. Tell me, will terrorists not be punished in this country? Terrorists
and criminals do not have any religion, community or language. I think I only
gave vent to the anger of the people when I spoke on the issue.
Q.: But there is a due process of law. Very
few people are sentenced to death in our country. Cases linger on. The system
is reluctant to give the death sentence, to execute the death sentence.
A.: Do you think a delay of six years because of the system is justified?
Look at the (David) Headley case in the US. The verdict was delivered so fast.
Q.: The Headley case is still on. The verdict
hasn't been delivered yet.
A.: But the progress on the case is fast. Here, a case goes on for five years
and the death sentence is stalled for six years. There is no longer any respect
or fear among the people for the rule of law. Is this good for the country?
How can a terrorist who has been convicted by the Supreme Court not be punished?
This is vote bank politics.
Q.: How?
A.: The BJP is not against Muslims. We are against terrorist organisations
like the LeT, Al Qaeda. In this country, even the minority population is patriotic.
They are not with the likes of Afzal Guru. But the Congress links the issue
to vote bank politics. Once the word secular meant neutrality towards religions,
it meant equal respect to all religions. Justice for all and appeasement of
none, that is the spirit of secularism. But now they've made it into appeasement
of terrorists. When a terrorist dies in this country, some politicians visit
their homes and they are welcomed.
Q.: Which politician are you talking about?
A.: I don't want to name them. But people saw what happened in Delhi, the
sacrifice of Sharma (Inspector Mohan Chand).
Q.: You mean Batla House.
A.: Who went to Azamgarh after that?
Q.: You're talking about Digvijay Singh...
You have issued a statement about this before.
A.: All this is vote bank politics.
Q.: The people whom he visited in Azamgarh
might not necessarily be terrorists. He went to speak to the people of Azamgarh.
A.: He met the families of those who were killed in the encounter. This is
an open secret. The families of those who were killed in the Parliament attack
have returned their medals to the Prime Minister to protest against the dilly-dallying
over the issue of Afzal Guru's punishment. I used the term damad to question
the special treatment given to Afzal Guru.
Q.: How does the word damad apply?
A.: What is unparliamentary about the word damad? When someone is given special
treatment, when you treat someone like a VIP, we use the word damad. See,
a criminal is a criminal, a terrorist is a terrorist. Whether he is Hindu,
Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, he should be treated according to the provisions
of the law. Then how can the Union Home Minister, a Congress party member
ask the chief minister of the state to sit on the file for 4-5 years?
Q.: The Congress party reacted sharply to
your comments. A spokesman termed it "obscene, obnoxious and obtuse".
Pranab Mukherjee has said stay within your limits (apni maryada mein rahe).
A.: My comment exposed the Congress so I can understand their anger. I don't
take the Congress spokesman very seriously.
Q.: Manish Tewari.
A.: He has misinterpreted the word. It's his problem. I'll pose a simple question
to you-'Is so and so your damad'? Tell me what is obscene in this comment?
Q.: Had he been a damad, they wouldn't have
locked him up in Tihar Jail.
A.: After locking him in Tihar, why has the death sentence been put on hold
for six years? Is there any other instance when the Home Minister himself
asks the Chief Minister to hold back a file? Why is it done for this case?
He (Shivraj Patil) was a mature politician. I know him. He himself couldn't
have taken such a decision. He must have been asked to do this by the Congress
high command.
Q.: But this comment came against the backdrop
of your previous comment. You had said something to the effect that some politicians
were licking their shoes like dogs.
A.: I never referred to Mulayamji or Laluji as dogs. We have ideological differences
with them, but I never referred to them as dogs. I had said that they were
asserting themselves like tigers, and look at their condition after the CBI
files came to light. When there was a cut motion in Parliament because of
the CBI files, Mayawati supported the Congress, while Mulayam and Lalu left
the House during the voting. I was reacting to this.
Q.: Suddenly there is surprise because Mr
Vajpayee, Mr Advani would not use this kind of aggressive language. Is this
the new BJP? Are you going to be more aggressive? Are you shedding diffidence?
A.: I am aggressive. I'm here for a movement. Atalji and Advaniji are very
senior leaders. I'm not of their stature. I express my feelings. I have my
anguish. This anguish is not only mine but that of crores of people in the
country.
Q.: During the 2004 general elections, Narendra
Modi had made some comments about Sonia Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi. He later
said that sometimes you hit no-balls and wide balls in cricket. So this wasn't
a no-ball or a wide ball?
A.: No, this is a googly which has straightaway hit a Congress wicket.
Q.: Tell me, why is the BJP in the news? Ever
since it lost power, it's been in the news for the wrong reasons...
A.: We carried out an unprecedented protest against inflation. In the six
months that I've been president, I have addressed the press 22 times. I have
spoken about economic issues such as inflation for 14-15 times. There was
a historic Bharat bandh, the result of this is that the Congress party is
scared now.
Q.: How did you manage to get the Left also
on board?
A.: Let some of our business secrets remain with us.
Q.: Yes, but politics is politics.
A.: I think the cause and the issues are important at the end of the day.
Even if a Left party takes up an issue which concerns the country at large,
I wouldn't say that it's unimportant. We would support them.
Q.: You don't consider the Left untouchable?
A.: We don't consider anyone untouchable.
Q.: But the Left considers you untouchable.
They say that they organised a separate bandh and they were not coordinating
with the BJP.
A.: Let them say what they want to. Yes, it is a reality that we were not
with them. A lot of people labelled us communal and then became our allies.
We have a problem of image versus reality. A lot of people have misconceptions
about the BJP. We are not a communal party.
Q.: But you have to prove it.
A.: We have already. We don't need to prove it. Any independent, impartial
micro-analysis of the BJP will amply prove that.
Q.: Mr Vajpayee proved it with one exception-the
Gujarat riots. He failed to fulfill his raj dharma. But otherwise, it will
take a lot of proving because you are an ally of the Shiv Sena.
A.: When the Congress ties up with the Muslim League in Kerala, why isn't
it spoken about? When they take the help of Naxalites in the elections in
Andhra Pradesh, why isn't it criticised? Several advisers to the Government
are openly supporting Naxalism.
Q.: Are you referring to the National Advisory
Council?
A.: There are people who are openly supporting the Maoists, Naxalism and they
are advisers in the Government. Can people who support Maoism, Naxalism become
advisers to the Government in this country?
Q.: Which advisers? You don't have to name
them but are you referring to the National Advisory Council? What is your
view on it?
A.: When a National Advisory Council or any council for that matter is constituted,
the Government can consider the opinion of different people. I have no objections
to that. But while the Government is fighting an ideology which is harmful
for the nation, how can there be advisers in a Government committee who owe
allegiance to that ideology? What is the message going out to the common man?
Q.: Let's come back to your party...why does
your party make news for the wrong reasons? I heard Murli Manohar Joshi voiced
his disagreement with you over a statement. Is there anarchy in the BJP?
A.: It's not anarchy. The BJP is a too democratic party. My party is not like
a public limited or a private limited company. Though I am the president,
no one wants to prove his loyalty to me individually. In other parties the
presidents are like managing directors; there is a competition among members
to demonstrate loyalty. Our party is more democratic. Some people are taking
advantage of this. I sometimes feel that some of the misconceptions about
the image of the BJP are because of different statements given by various
party members to different sections of the media.
Q.: I'm interested in the expression 'too
democratic'. That means are you going to do something about it? Too democratic
means too much.
A.: Though I'm a president, I'm ready to address grievances. We have a principle,
handed down by Atalji and Advaniji, that no one is supreme.
Q.: So, you will take action against anybody
no matter how senior they are?
A.: No one is bigger than the party. I won't hesitate.
Q.: Do you have the power to do this? You
are not an RSS dummy?
A.: I am no one's dummy. The RSS is a part of my convictions. I'm proud of
my RSS connections. But the RSS doesn't interfere in my work. I am an independent
minded person. I'm a BJP worker.
Q.: Did you take a decision to stop Narendra
Modi from going to Bihar to campaign for the elections?
A.: No, I haven't taken any such decision. We want an alliance with Nitish
Kumar in Bihar. In Bihar, the main issue is that of development. The Government
of Nitish Kumar and Sushil Modi has placed Bihar on the path of development.
In the interest of the people of Bihar, we should fight elections together
on the plank of development to re-elect a Government that brings about development
for the people.
Q.: Do you think your alliance will remain
intact?
A.: I'm confident that the alliance will stay. Some skirmishes here and there
remain.
Q.: What's your view on Narendra Modi? He's
also a young leader of your party.
A.: I empathise with him because I feel a section of the media has been unfair
to him. He is a role model. The overall growth rate of agriculture is 0.2
per cent whereas Gujarat has a growth rate of 14 per cent.
Q.: But what happened in 2002 also has to
be considered.
A.: There have been more fearful riots in Mumbai and Maharashtra. Was the
Congress held responsible for it?
Q.: The Congress got punished. It's a question
of how a party, how a political leadership responds, talks.
A.: There have been 600 encounters in UP. There were just 19 in Gujarat and
you are making an issue of it. Do you think that the police that tries to
control thousands of people during riots only acts after instructions from
the Chief Minister?
Q.: But do you have a different view on the
encounter cases in Gujarat? The Sohrabuddin case for example?
A.: Look at the Ishrat (Jahan) case. See I don't think the issue of security
in our country should be linked to vote bank politics. The Congress party
took it up as an issue of fake encounters while Headley has now named Ishrat
as a trained LeT member. Vote bank politics should not be linked to terrorism.
A terrorist is a terrorist irrespective of his religion.
Q.: But nobody is innocent in this, because
your party also while fighting terrorism plays vote bank politics which is
painting every Muslim as a terrorist.
A.: Not at all. Would we then have made Dr APJ Abdul Kalam the President of
the country? Which decision have we taken, as state Governments in power,
that discriminates against the Muslims? This is only a perception.
Q.: Jaswant Singh is back in the party. What
about Uma Bharti? What progress on that front? Are you throwing a googly or
an in-swinger?
A.: I want to take along all people of the party.
Q.: So you would prefer if she comes back?
A.: These decisions will be taken after discussions by the party parliamentary
board. Unless there is unanimity, discussions will continue.
Q.: But you want reconciliation?
A.: A person can make a mistake once. If the mistakes are bonafide, the person
should be forgiven. But if mistakes are malafide, then the case is different.
No one is perfect and no one can claim that he is perfect. Even I can make
mistakes. I want politics of addition, not of subtraction.
