Author: Susanne Koelbl
Publication: Spiegel.de
Date: October 8, 2010
URL: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,druck-722139,00.html
Outgoing Security Advisor Jones Voices Concern
on Pakistan
US President Barack Obama is losing yet another
advisor: National Security Advisor James Jones is resigning. Shortly before
the announcement, SPIEGEL ONLINE spoke to Jones about the war on terror and
the delicate state of the US relationship with Pakistan.
For 40 years, James L. Jones served in the
military before he hung up his uniform and became national security advisor
in Washington. But in the future, United States President Barack Obama will
have to do without his expert advice -- Jones plans to step down, a high-ranking
colleague in the US government said on Friday.
The official said that Obama is expected to
announce Jones' resignation on Friday. The exact date of his departure hasn't
been set, but it could happen before the end of the year. His successor is
expected to be his current deputy security advisor, Thomas E. Donilon.
The government official did not state the
reason for Jones' departure, but there has long been speculation in the capital
about the move. It has been said that Jones was unhappy that he had not been
included as part of the innermost leadership circle within the White House.
In recent days, several senior Obama advisers
have resigned, including Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, top economic adviser
Lawrence Summers and chief strategist David Axelrod.
In an interview with SPIEGEL ONLINE shortly
before the development, Jones provided a progress report on the war on terror
and explained the next important steps in America's strategy. As the breeding
ground of international terror, Pakistan will play a pivotal role in that
strategy. And if Pakistan wants to remain a long-term partner to the US, Jones
said, it will have to make a greater effort in the fight against terror.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Recently you came to Berlin
as US President Barack Obama's representative to help Germany celebrate 20
years of reunification. But you also came to warn Germans about a specific
terrorist threat. How serious is it?
Jones: October 3 is a very important date
that we can all be very proud of. The second purpose of my visit was to meet
with my German colleague Christoph Häusgen (Chancellor Angela Merkel's
top foreign and security policy advisor) to continue the discussions on mutual
interests and one of them was the alert that was published a couple days back
in the United States.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Can you be more specific please?
Jones: Al-Qaida may have some focus on Europe
right now -- although not in a specific place. We wanted to make sure that
our governments act in concert and that our populations understand fully what
we think the level of threat is. What we know is thought to be credible information.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The main source of this warning
is a 36-year-old German member of the radical Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan,
Ahmed Sidiqqi, who was trained in Pakistan and is now being held in American
custody in Afghanistan. Why is Pakistan still the main breeding ground of
terrorism?
Jones: We have been working very closely with
the Pakistani government for a long time now. In some cases the Pakistanis
have responded quite well. Their operations in the Swat Valley and South Waziristan,
for example, were timely and very effective. At the same time, there has been
a very steady message that Pakistan needs to do more to stem terrorism, especially
when they know where it is and when officials have information about what
the terrorists are doing. If the Pakistanis are going to be a partner in the
long term, they have to make a commitment that shows the watching world that
they are serious about forms of terrorism.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Should your cooperation with
the Pakistani army fail, is there a possibility that Pakistan would become
the next military target of the US?
Jones: I am going to take the optimistic view
that rational people do rational things and that -- with the help of friends
and allies and common goals -- Pakistan will avoid, or hopefully avoid, that
unfortunate eventuality. But hope is not a strategy, so we have to be cognizant
of the fact that there are things which could happen that could alter the
relationship if we are not careful.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Can you define exactly who
is the enemy in the Hindu Kush region today?
Jones: Our enemies are the radicals who are
targeting not only the US but also Europe, who advocate violence and who want
to bring harm to our way of life and the world as we know it today. This is
not a threat which is going to go away in the near future. This is a 21st-century-reality,
a struggle at least for the first half of the century.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: How long will international
NATO troops still be needed for this struggle?
Jones: President Hamid Karzai at the London
conference claimed that he would like to be "fully in charge" of
his entire country by 2014, an aim the international community will also embrace.
We hope to see the beginning of that transition between the NATO summit this
year in November in Lisbon and next July. But it should be a transition that
the world community can be comfortable and confident with, not just the United
States. And that the Afghans can see that their army and police and instruments
of governance are gradually taking hold.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Hasn't NATO largely failed
as an effective alliance in Afghanistan?
Jones: I don't think so, there are many NATO
countries who have sent their soldiers and resources there. They are doing
a lot and the final chapter hasn't been written yet. We should wait and see
how the transition period works out. As far as the new strategic concept of
NATO is concerned -- which will be discussed in Lisbon in November -- if it
includes a NATO which is more proactive in areas where al-Qaida is making
inroads and where threats are coming towards us collectively, then I will
consider NATO of the future to be an alliance for the good of our collective
security.
'It Is Never Fun to Read about Yourself in
a Negative Way'
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Will the US give up its military bases in Afghanistan and
pull out when you have achieved your goals?
Jones: We have every intention of honoring
our long-term commitment in Afghanistan and in Pakistan as well. We will not
always have 100,000 Americans on the ground in full combat gear as we do now.
We want the Afghans to assume eventual responsibility, but it does include
long-term economic programs, long-term stability programs and long-term governance
programs.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Still, your military presence
in the region is a provocation for neighboring countries like China and Iran?
Jones: First of all, it is in the interest
of all the countries that share a border with Afghanistan that it becomes
a reasonably stable state. In the case of Russia and China, they are supportive
of our efforts. We talk to China quite a bit -- they are very much concerned
about Afghanistan, about the drug trade, for example, which crosses their
borders. But I would think that Iran, as another example, would also benefit
from a stable Afghanistan.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The Americans have always
viewed Afghanistan as the war of necessity. Do you think that is still true
today?
Jones: If it was right then, it is probably
right now. We made a commitment to the people of Afghanistan that we would
try to provide for them a better life, a better future, a better opportunity.
But, at the end of the day, we can't want these things more than the Afghans
do themselves. So there is a certain duality of purpose here where the Afghans
now, after almost 10 years, have to be able to show that they are also capable
of stepping up and taking increased responsibilities for their future.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: You have sought to take action
against the operators of the Internet platform WikiLeaks, the website which
releases classified documents like the Afghanistan war logs, which media outlets
like SPIEGEL, the New York Times and the Guardian have reviewed and reported
on. In what way does this website threaten US national security?
Jones: We will survive this, but obviously
to bring about successful solutions there is a need to maintain important
secrets for a while. In many cases secrets protect lives of people who would
otherwise be at risk. There is a right time and a right place for everything
and this was certainly not the right time or the right place for these revelations,
and they put peoples' lives at risk.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: When the Rolling Stone article
appeared which led to General Stanley McChrystal's replacement in Afghanistan,
it revealed that the US-military team in Kabul was very disrespectful of the
US government, and of you. A new book published by investigative journalist
Bob Woodward provides a similar account. Were you offended?
Jones: It is never fun to read about yourself
in a negative way. It hurts your family, it hurts your friends. Some of it
is true, some of it is not, but at the end of the day you can't be taking
on significant jobs expecting that you go free of criticism. The more you
push on something, the more you poke at something, the more you question things,
the more people who don't agree with your way are going to start criticizing
you. I take it with a grain of salt.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Looking at the global security
situation today, do you see greater chances for peace or do you see more wars?
Jones: This is a very historical time we are
living in and we had a century-defining moment...
SPIEGEL ONLINE: ...the 9/11 attacks.
Jones: Now we understand better the various
threats we face -- the threat of climate change, of our energy sources, the
threat that terrorism brings, a world in which the haves and the have nots
are more starkly defined than before. The poor countries are striving to rise
into the globalized world and, I believe, the developed nations are beginning
to understand that if they don't address their issues seriously, these countries
may be the Afghanistans and Pakistans and Iraqs of the future.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: What is Americas approach
to this challenge?
Jones: I think we are very much at a crossroads
and one of the big challenges is -- given that you have a rising China as
well as other countries -- how do you stay competitive and how do you reorganize
yourself to face the new realities. We need a globalized community spirit
which has a comprehensive sense of what the world should look like in 20 years.
If we do that, our children will have a better life. If we do it poorly, though,
it will definitely not be fun for them.
